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Old 04-14-2023, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,548 posts, read 2,185,741 times
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Well, if nothing else, I hear that you can actually have a career in the food service industry nowadays.
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Old 04-14-2023, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,092 posts, read 56,617,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Gee, sorry, I thought you were responding to my post.

You can't have 80 different teachers in a school each operating by their own set of rules. That doesn't work.

I don't like the 50% policy, either. Although, I don't think it's such a big deal as some here do. I once taught in a school that moved to that policy, and guess what -- the same kids pretty much ended up with the same report card grade as under the 0% policy. It had no effect on the A, B, and C students, almost no effect on the D students, and a marginal effect on the F students.
Well, I'm not saying it's OK to ignore the rules and do your own thing, particularly not on the job, just that to me, logically, if a kid does not turn anything in at all, it seems to me the logical grade one would assign for that is"0".

I also think firing this gal is rather extreme, and outright stupid on the part of her principal - you have billets you can't fill already, so go ahead and add one more for what I would have seen as more of an administrative error than a rebellion.

It is an interesting policy and not one that reflects the world of work. If you don't show up all month, you can hardly expect a half-paycheck as a "consolation prize".
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Old 04-14-2023, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,940 posts, read 23,671,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Well, I'm not saying it's OK to ignore the rules and do your own thing, particularly not on the job, just that to me, logically, if a kid does not turn anything in at all, it seems to me the logical grade one would assign for that is"0".

I also think firing this gal is rather extreme, and outright stupid on the part of her principal - you have billets you can't fill already, so go ahead and add one more for what I would have seen as more of an administrative error than a rebellion.

It is an interesting policy and not one that reflects the world of work. If you don't show up all month, you can hardly expect a half-paycheck as a "consolation prize".
1. Having been a school administrator (and a teacher), my guess is that she was not fired for this issue alone (even though legally it was probably stated that way).

2. Here's the way it would have worked in my district:
a. Principal became aware that teacher was not following official policy. Principal has conference with teacher making her aware that she is to follow official policy.
b. Teacher continues to disregard official policy. Principal holds second conference and this time writes a summary memo to teacher officially reviewing both conferences, and places the memo in the principal's correspondence file.
c. Teacher continues to disregard official policy. Principal holds third conference and this time writes a memo that is placed in teacher's personnel file.
d. Teacher continues to disregard official policy. Princiapl holds fourth conference and puts another memo into teacher's personnel file, which -- after reviewing the previous conferences and memos -- includes this type of language: "We have now met four times about this issue of you not following official policy regarding the grading of students. If you continue to disregard official policy you may face termination".
e. Teacher continues to disregard official policy -- it's clearly become a case of "defiance" and "failure to fulfill contract". Teacher may be dismissed.

It's sort of like baseball -- multiple strikes and you're out.
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Old 04-14-2023, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,092 posts, read 56,617,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post
Well, if nothing else, I hear that you can actually have a career in the food service industry nowadays.
IIRC one McDonald's CEO actually did start out flipping burgers in high school. Sometimes a kid who won't apply himself in school will apply himself on the job. Not common but it can happen.
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Old 04-14-2023, 01:16 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,770 posts, read 59,668,390 times
Reputation: 60286
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
1. Having been a school administrator (and a teacher), my guess is that she was not fired for this issue alone (even though legally it was probably stated that way).

2. Here's the way it would have worked in my district:
a. Principal became aware that teacher was not following official policy. Principal has conference with teacher making her aware that she is to follow official policy.
b. Teacher continues to disregard official policy. Principal holds second conference and this time writes a summary memo to teacher officially reviewing both conferences, and places the memo in the principal's correspondence file.
c. Teacher continues to disregard official policy. Principal holds third conference and this time writes a memo that is placed in teacher's personnel file.
d. Teacher continues to disregard official policy. Princiapl holds fourth conference and puts another memo into teacher's personnel file, which -- after reviewing the previous conferences and memos -- includes this type of language: "We have now met four times about this issue of you not following official policy regarding the grading of students. If you continue to disregard official policy you may face termination".
e. Teacher continues to disregard official policy -- it's clearly become a case of "defiance" and "failure to fulfill contract". Teacher may be dismissed.

It's sort of like baseball -- multiple strikes and you're out.
C'mon, you know schools don't have a termination process and teachersnever get fired, even though that's what this thread is about-a teacher being fired for persistent refusal to follow procedures.
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Old 04-14-2023, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,940 posts, read 23,671,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
C'mon, you know schools don't have a termination process and teachersnever get fired, even though that's what this thread is about-a teacher being fired for persistent refusal to follow procedures.
It didn't happen in my school often, and usually we didn't have to go the "firing" route, but rather nudged people out. I even canned a vice principal.
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Old 04-14-2023, 06:11 PM
 
1,014 posts, read 419,719 times
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Anything to keep that daily student $$$ coming in from the state for attendance.
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Old 04-14-2023, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Live in NY, work in CT
11,220 posts, read 18,671,264 times
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I used to be against the "50" policy, but mathematically it actually makes sense (yeah, I'm a math teacher!)


In most schools (may vary slightly)

A is 90-100
B is 80-90
C is 70-80
D is 60-70


So F should also be a 10 point range give or take (maybe 15-20 at most) so one can "reasonably recover", thus 50-60.

Ideally, grades would be a 50 point scale, but we're all accustomed to percents and it's been a 100 point scale forever, so it would kind of be like getting Americans to use the metric system, etc.
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Old 04-14-2023, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,092 posts, read 56,617,456 times
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The issue for me, and I'm not "distraught" about it, just noting the illogical nature of this "50" policy -

I really don't support the idea of a "floor" level of reward for poor performance. Remember Management 101 : What you reward, you will get more of!" So I think rewarding zero performance with half of what you would reward a perfect performance with makes no sense.

If you take your car in for a tune-up, and when they return the car, it won't even run, do you think you should pay half the bill and then walk home?!

Of course, if a school is having a significant percent of students that are in this 50%/0% situation, that in itself is a bigger problem, than what grade to give a student who does not even turn in a piece of scrap paper with his name on it when it's time to turn in homework.
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Old 04-14-2023, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,092 posts, read 56,617,456 times
Reputation: 18339
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
I used to be against the "50" policy, but mathematically it actually makes sense (yeah, I'm a math teacher!)


In most schools (may vary slightly)

A is 90-100
B is 80-90
C is 70-80
D is 60-70


So F should also be a 10 point range give or take (maybe 15-20 at most) so one can "reasonably recover", thus 50-60.

Ideally, grades would be a 50 point scale, but we're all accustomed to percents and it's been a 100 point scale forever, so it would kind of be like getting Americans to use the metric system, etc.
The term "percent" means fraction from 100. We can decide to use 1000, or pi to be a full score. But if you are using a "percent" scale, it means fraction of what a full 100 point score would be.

Scoring on a 100 point scale but only using the top half of the scale is disingenuous at best.

Although this discussion illustrates the American fascination with trying to get better performance from about the bottom 25% of students, writ large. Is that really what the public, who is paying for this nonsense, really wants? But that's worth it's own thread.

I can assure you, the Russian education system does not concentrate on the least capable students.
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