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Old 06-12-2023, 07:39 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 16,005,106 times
Reputation: 28265

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
1. One of my daughter's good friends was a K teacher. One year, opening day 2021 IIRC, two kids showed up wearing diapers.

2. Over '20 and '21/covid many inner city kids, overwhelmingly members of the low word count cadre you noted, literally regressed in reading and verbal skills.

3. Somehow/someway we need to reach the point where we can have honest discussions about race/culture and K-12 underperformance. Until then we will continue to spin our collective wheels.
I wish I could argue with you.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 06-23-2023, 07:25 AM
 
7,246 posts, read 3,474,346 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
And, to be honest, when you're at the bottom, the only way is up.
Incorrect, of course: you can stay at the bottom.

The "Mississippi Miracle" is not some random uptick; it is statistically significant, and it is important for parents and educators to peel pack the layers to determine why this dramatic increase occurred.

It wasn't due to paying teachers more money.
It wasn't due to hiring better principals.
It wasn't due to building new schools with modern physical infrastructure.
It wasn't due to free breakfast and lunch programs.
It wasn't due to increases - or decreases - in property taxes.
It wasn't due to an influx of higher IQ parents/families.

It was due to adoption of a phonics-based curriculum.

It raises the question, why do professional educators push back on phonics?

Last edited by moguldreamer; 06-23-2023 at 07:38 AM..
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Old 06-23-2023, 07:33 AM
 
7,246 posts, read 3,474,346 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Says MS is up to 21st but the graph makes them look like they're in the top 3-5.

Really badly put together article by AP.
I think the domain of the graph is the Southern States.
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Old 06-23-2023, 07:35 AM
 
7,246 posts, read 3,474,346 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
I can’t believe it, but I’m actually going to agree with you here. I have to wonder what had to be done for the reading test scores to “soar”, such results “soaring” out of nowhere usually involve some degree of fudging.
Yet experts attribute it to a phonics-based curriculum.
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Old 06-23-2023, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,097 posts, read 23,766,906 times
Reputation: 32514
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
Incorrect, of course: you can stay at the bottom.

The "Mississippi Miracle" is not some random uptick; it is statistically significant, and it is important for parents and educators to peel pack the layers to determine why this dramatic increase occurred.

It wasn't due to paying teachers more money.
It wasn't due to hiring better principals.
It wasn't due to building new schools with modern physical infrastructure.
It wasn't due to free breakfast and lunch programs.
It wasn't due to increases - or decreases - in property taxes.
It wasn't due to an influx of higher IQ parents/families.

It was due to adoption of a phonics-based curriculum.

It raises the question, why do professional educators push back on phonics?
But let's also wait and see how long it lasts.

And, you are against all those factors you cite?
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Old 06-27-2023, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
772 posts, read 449,801 times
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Most likely the bar was lowered in order for this “spike” in test scores to occur.
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Old 06-27-2023, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Sydney Australia
2,141 posts, read 1,410,996 times
Reputation: 4436
https://www.kidsnews.com.au/humaniti...3d0d77624fc995

What is interesting here is that kids from non-English speaking backgrounds perform higher than the rest.
Phonics has been mandatory here for some time but handicapped by the fact that many parents and teachers went through the system when it was optional.
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Old 06-27-2023, 08:19 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,313 posts, read 16,945,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
I..............

It raises the question, why do professional educators push back on phonics?
The rest of your post was good, but I just wanted to focus on that one question:
I find the answer in the story of Chesterton's Fence - a lesson in philosophy.
Chesterton describes the classic case of the reformer who notices something, such as a fence, and fails to see the reason for its existence. However, before they decide to remove it, they must figure out why it exists in the first place. If they do not do this, they are likely to do more harm than good with its removal. In its most concise version, Chesterton’s Fence states the following: Do not remove a fence until you know why it was put up in the first place.



Many people believe the principle of Chesterton's fence, exactly describes the issue in education. In their haste to improve things, many educators assume they, themselves, are the smartest people to come along and thus should dismantle the existing system and replace it with one of their own choosing, which, they believe, will be superior to the old system.
The above linked article does a wonderful job of parsing out the meaning and application of Second Order Thinking.


The answer to your question is, I think, "Because phonics was there before the current educators arrived". They believe they have been hired and promoted in order to change things.
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Old 06-30-2023, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Sunny So. Cal.
4,206 posts, read 1,572,411 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
Incorrect, of course: you can stay at the bottom.

The "Mississippi Miracle" is not some random uptick; it is statistically significant, and it is important for parents and educators to peel pack the layers to determine why this dramatic increase occurred.

It wasn't due to paying teachers more money.
It wasn't due to hiring better principals.
It wasn't due to building new schools with modern physical infrastructure.
It wasn't due to free breakfast and lunch programs.
It wasn't due to increases - or decreases - in property taxes.
It wasn't due to an influx of higher IQ parents/families.

It was due to adoption of a phonics-based curriculum.

It raises the question, why do professional educators push back on phonics?
Do educators really push back on phonics? I’ve worked in schools for 30+ years and haven’t experienced that. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just genuinely curious if it does, and why.
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Old 06-30-2023, 07:52 AM
 
9,712 posts, read 7,528,729 times
Reputation: 24102
Quote:
Originally Posted by stone26 View Post
Do educators really push back on phonics? I’ve worked in schools for 30+ years and haven’t experienced that. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just genuinely curious if it does, and why.
In the 90's I volunteered in my daughter's first grade classroom to help the kids with their reading. It was the new magnet school, had to win the lottery to get in.

The teacher overheard me asking the student "what sound does a P make?" I was reprimanded on the spot and told that's not how reading is taught.

It's been a foolish experiment. Thank goodness I taught my children how to read at home before they started school.
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