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Old 07-06-2023, 05:41 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 15,964,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You and I are about the same age and we learned Reading using both methods being merged. At some point they became a "One or Another" proposition.

Phetaroi mentioned a kid who read aloud beautifully. That's the problem with Only Phonics. Kids cab decode the words but has absolutely no concept of the meanings.

Then when they got to me trying to get them to understand context was--------difficult.
Exactly. I have no clue why so many insist it either be one way or another.
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Old 07-06-2023, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,893 posts, read 23,639,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Exactly. I have no clue why so many insist it either be one way or another.
It goes back to recognizing learning modalities and understanding that really a good teacher has a "little bag of tricks" because they understand that not all students learn best in the same way. It's always struck me as odd that adults will often realize that they may do best visually, auditorily, kinestetically, or tactilly, but don't connect that kids don't all learn most effectively in the same way.
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Old 08-05-2023, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
767 posts, read 445,553 times
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I’m guessing the “soaring scores” were due to standards lowering or something like that.
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Old 08-06-2023, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,624 posts, read 18,984,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
I’m guessing the “soaring scores” were due to standards lowering or something like that.
Probably that and the influx of northerners moving to southern States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
That's the problem with Only Phonics. Kids cab decode the words but has absolutely no concept of the meanings.
Oh, no, we understood the meanings because barring a holiday, we had a vocabulary test each and every single Friday without fail from the time I was in the 2nd Grade until I completed 8th Grade. In the 9th Grade, we had vocabulary tests once a month. I don't ever remember taking one after that.

That was all homework. We were given a list of 8-12 words, took them home, looked up the definition in a dictionary, wrote the definition, and the used the word in a sentence in the correct context. That was turned in on Wednesdays, they were graded and returned to us on Thursdays to study for the quiz on Fridays.

Today that wouldn't work because students would just copy and paste the definitions from the internet and copy and past the example sentence using the word and wouldn't learn anything.
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Old 08-06-2023, 04:02 PM
 
6,529 posts, read 4,117,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
I’m guessing the “soaring scores” were due to standards lowering or something like that.
My mother was in education for many years. There’s a likelihood of teaching the test.
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Old 08-06-2023, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizap View Post
My mother was in education for many years. There’s a likelihood of teaching the test.
Teaching to the test is not necessarily a bad thing.
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Old 08-07-2023, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Teaching to the test is not necessarily a bad thing.
Agreed, but it is what it is.
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Old 08-07-2023, 11:16 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
101,974 posts, read 106,492,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You and I are about the same age and we learned Reading using both methods being merged. At some point they became a "One or Another" proposition.

Phetaroi mentioned a kid who read aloud beautifully. That's the problem with Only Phonics. Kids cab decode the words but has absolutely no concept of the meanings.

Then when they got to me trying to get them to understand context was--------difficult.
I don't know what you mean by "only phonics". People don't seem to understand how phonics is (or used to be/should be) taught. It's a very basic introduction to how words work. It's usually taught only in 1st and 2nd grade. Maybe now that reading is introduced in kindergarten, phonics starts there.

In any case, it begins with one-syllable words (cat, sat, bat, leg, beg, peg,), to point out patterns in words the kids already know. It's basically pattern recognition of the most elementary type. This gets the kids off to a simple start. The Dick-and-Jane books were designed to work with phonics lessons. So already in the first few weeks of school, they can read. It's not a method that continues through grade school as more complex words enter the vocabulary, because as we all know, more complex words in English are...complicated. That's when spelling lessons come in, along with learning new vocab.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea;
Oh, no, we understood the meanings because barring a holiday, we had a vocabulary test each and every single Friday without fail from the time I was in the 2nd Grade until I completed 8th Grade. In the 9th Grade, we had vocabulary tests once a month. I don't ever remember taking one after that.
But phonics starts in 1st grade (or earlier, nowadays probably), and doesn't go beyond 2nd grade, usually. It's mainly a method to jump-start reading at the introductory level, like training wheels on a bike. The training wheels come off as the kids progress through 2nd grade, and spelling rules are introduced as vocabulary expands into more complex words.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 08-07-2023 at 11:51 AM..
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Old 08-07-2023, 12:51 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,123 posts, read 16,878,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Probably that and the influx of northerners moving to southern States.



Oh, no, we understood the meanings because barring a holiday, we had a vocabulary test each and every single Friday without fail from the time I was in the 2nd Grade until I completed 8th Grade. In the 9th Grade, we had vocabulary tests once a month. I don't ever remember taking one after that.

That was all homework. We were given a list of 8-12 words, took them home, looked up the definition in a dictionary, wrote the definition, and the used the word in a sentence in the correct context. That was turned in on Wednesdays, they were graded and returned to us on Thursdays to study for the quiz on Fridays.

Today that wouldn't work because students would just copy and paste the definitions from the internet and copy and past the example sentence using the word and wouldn't learn anything.
Your description brings back memories. I remember doing that as homework as well.
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Old 08-07-2023, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,893 posts, read 23,639,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
Agreed, but it is what it is.
If the test tests what should be taught, then teaching to the test makes some sense...with limits.

But I think back to the 1960s when I was a high school student taking Regents exams in NYS. Some of the teachers would spend more than a month doing almost nothing beyond having us take old Regents exams (you could buy paperback books with the old tests) and then going over them. Such a waste.
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