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Old 08-08-2023, 07:47 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,527 posts, read 17,042,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
If the test tests what should be taught, then teaching to the test makes some sense...with limits.

But I think back to the 1960s when I was a high school student taking Regents exams in NYS. Some of the teachers would spend more than a month doing almost nothing beyond having us take old Regents exams (you could buy paperback books with the old tests) and then going over them. Such a waste.
Well they don't do that anymore and now the tests are all multiple choice..not fill in the blanks.
Gives the kids a 25% chance of guessing the right answer.
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Old 08-08-2023, 08:39 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,782 posts, read 59,694,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well they don't do that anymore and now the tests are all multiple choice..not fill in the blanks.
Gives the kids a 25% chance of guessing the right answer.
Actually a bit more than 25%. On most multiple choice (also called Selected Response) tests, if they're constructed properly, have two choices that are not close to being correct, one that is close and one that is exactly correct.

One of the techniques used in SAT Prep, which filtered down to test prep for mandated end of course exams, was teaching the kids how to determine which responses are which.
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Old 08-08-2023, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,952 posts, read 23,686,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well they don't do that anymore and now the tests are all multiple choice..not fill in the blanks.
Gives the kids a 25% chance of guessing the right answer.
The Regents tests when I took them were also multiple choice.
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Old 08-08-2023, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
768 posts, read 447,146 times
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The SAT also has a fifth choice on each question to my knowledge, which reduces the chances of simply guessing the right answer. Still, it doesn’t eliminate the problem that the correct answer can still be guessed with little to no understanding of the topic at hand. The only viable way I can see that changing is by switching to fill in the blank testing, as stated before.
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Old 08-08-2023, 05:53 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
The Regents tests when I took them were also multiple choice.
But not 100% multiple choice. There were fill in the blank questions.

NYS still has old regents digitized so you can look them up.


https://nysl.nysed.gov/regentsexams.htm
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Old 08-08-2023, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
768 posts, read 447,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
If the test tests what should be taught, then teaching to the test makes some sense...with limits.

But I think back to the 1960s when I was a high school student taking Regents exams in NYS. Some of the teachers would spend more than a month doing almost nothing beyond having us take old Regents exams (you could buy paperback books with the old tests) and then going over them. Such a waste.
It does, just like if you take a computerized training module at any other job, you would be tested on what the module contained. I don’t understand why K12 would be any different in that sense.
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Old 08-09-2023, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,952 posts, read 23,686,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
But not 100% multiple choice. There were fill in the blank questions.

NYS still has old regents digitized so you can look them up.


https://nysl.nysed.gov/regentsexams.htm
Those appear to be all relatively recent. I am talking 1960s.
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Old 08-09-2023, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,952 posts, read 23,686,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
It does, just like if you take a computerized training module at any other job, you would be tested on what the module contained. I don’t understand why K12 would be any different in that sense.
What I'm saying is:
1. Presume a valid curriculum
2. Base the test questions on that curriculm
3. Therefore, teach to the test, and you have covered the curriculum.

When it doesn't work right is when a teacher just takes old tests and teaches the answers to the old questions. I've seen this done.
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Old 08-09-2023, 07:18 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,527 posts, read 17,042,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Those appear to be all relatively recent. I am talking 1960s.
Digitized versions of the Math tests on that site go back to the 1940's..which had no multiple choice questions at all.
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Old 08-09-2023, 10:46 PM
 
12,546 posts, read 8,763,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What I'm saying is:
1. Presume a valid curriculum
2. Base the test questions on that curriculm
3. Therefore, teach to the test, and you have covered the curriculum.

When it doesn't work right is when a teacher just takes old tests and teaches the answers to the old questions. I've seen this done.
I think where a lot of the criticism comes from is getting the first two reversed.

1. Presume a test.
2. Base the curriculum on the test.
3. Teach the test.
4. Grades go up.
5. Everyone happy. Test companies make money. Curriculum publishers make money. Politicians happy. School administrators get to keep their jobs.

The part ignored -- everything that wasn't on the test.
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