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Old 08-17-2023, 05:40 PM
 
16,807 posts, read 16,037,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Since when has USA college (?) prepared a graduate for the workplace? USA college and profs are pretty clueless about the 'workplace', as are the students.


welcome to the 'new normal' (entitlements)


Yes, education is in trouble, and I trust the outcome will only improve educational opportunities. Covid was the once / century chance for USA edu to get it together, They failed. Opportunity lost.



With age 26 (healthcare, and car insurance paid by parents up until that age.)
being yesteryears' age 18... (voting, military, financially and legally self sufficient)

Expect immaturity in young adults.

Fewer kids are working FT before college, so they know little about what is expected of a FT employee. (I don't consider food service / grunt jobs requiring no intellectual or 'task-value-add' responsibilty as preparing anyone for a career / job / employment with major responsibility or commitment). Yes... a grunt worker may need to SHOW UP, but that doesn't equal, "You are responsible for the success of this business, and the safety of other employees, and driving company vehicles, operating equipment that could kill others, dealing with commercial accts..." It's a no starter.

Recent hires are very difficult to get up to speed. Employers should get a 'training credit' simiar to hiring ex-cons (who are usually much harder workers, and certainly more responsible and committed than USA college grads).

Green Card / immigrant grads... far better than USA grads, and with adequate incentive to WORK and stay employed.

vs...
Business leaders who responded to Intelligent's survey said Gen Z grads had negative traits, including a poor work ethic, sub-par communication skills, and a sense of entitlement.
My kid was in a management position at his restaurant. He was tasked with supervising the employees, closing out registers, training new employees, talking to HR, running deposits to banks, dealing with angry customers, dealing with drunk and crazy customers, dealing with customers having medical emergencies, checking various machinery to make sure it was cooling/heating/running properly, he had to have safe food handling certifications - and, yes, there was all of the grunt work that had to be done, too. That job prepared him in a way for work that no college can.

His current job is blessedly boring by comparison.
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Old 08-17-2023, 05:53 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,122 posts, read 16,859,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
Probably some of the problem is that Covid hit and schools shut down. How were students studying to become teachers able to do their student teaching when the schools were closed?

Some school districts had there physicals school closed for 2 years. So, yes, if those students only got an online simulation of teaching during Covid they may have some unrealistic expectations going into a real teaching position.

It should be obvious from their resume that they've never student taught in a physical school before. They are going to need to be brought up to speed.
did they waiver student teaching as part of the curriculum for educators ?
They have online simulations of student teaching now ? Does that include misbehaved students or it is the perfect environment ?
I do know that for the written test you answer according to their idea of a perfect classroom and not reality. We were told that right before we registered to take the test.
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Old 08-17-2023, 06:05 PM
 
16,807 posts, read 16,037,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
did they waiver student teaching as part of the curriculum for educators ?
They have online simulations of student teaching now ? Does that include misbehaved students or it is the perfect environment ?
I do know that for the written test you answer according to their idea of a perfect classroom and not reality. We were told that right before we registered to take the test.
Seriously, I have no idea how student teaching was handled during Covid.


It would make sense that if all teaching was being done online that a teaching major would not have been able to go into a physical school.

I don't know if they waived the requirement while Covid was happening or if they did some sort of online student teaching.
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Old 08-17-2023, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,624 posts, read 18,981,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
So this big "business leader" stance of "We won't hire Gen Z" applies only to recent graduates who graduated on time and obviously were able to persevere and get their college degrees in spite of the pandemic shut downs and all of the other obstacles put in front of them.....hmmm.
Um, most colleges are on-line. Perhaps you should join us in the 21st Century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
They specifically don't want to hire this group? How stupid.
Not stupid at all.

The Z-Bots are the first all-tech generation. It has been overwhelmingly harmful to them.

They do not know how to communicate unless it's in the form of texting/sexting. That is not the real world and it certainly is not the business world.

They are unprepared. Online courses are a joke.

Having said that, there are courses that are appropriate for asynchronous online learning, like an anatomy course. How would class-room discussion facilitate understanding of dysplasia? It wouldn't.

As a favor for a friend, I recently taught an online course. She said it would be easy. She lied. Since there's no class-room and it's asynchronous, the university uses a discussion board on Blackboard which is basically the same operation as creating a thread or posting here on City-Data.

Discussions are posed NLT 11:59 PM on Wednesdays and students have to respond to at least 2 classmates NLT 11:59 PM Sundays.

First week, really bad initial posts and drive-by responses: "I agree with you" or "I like what you said."

I sent an email with the grading rubric attached and reminded them of the grading rubric.

Next week's discussion was on Supreme Court rulings related to high-speed pursuits. Same thing. Drive-by responses.

So I changed the rubric to minimum 500 word initial post and minimum 100 word response and they blew a gasket.

The older students, the ones in their 30s and 40s, no problem. Most of them were doing it right from the very start and couple emailed me and said they were glad I changed it.

Understand, these are criminal justice majors.

I mean, if you're a cop, are you gonna text a driver to stop? And then text them to get their license and registration out? If you're post-judicial or post-release, meaning a probation or parole officer, you can't text your charges. Nowhere in the criminal justice system do people communicate by text.

Everything is in-person face-to-face, or worst case scenarios on video (for lock-ups and prisoners) or by telephone.

If they don't know how to communicate, they're not gonna be working for very long, except maybe in fast-food.
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Old 08-17-2023, 06:46 PM
 
16,807 posts, read 16,037,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Um, most colleges are on-line. Perhaps you should join us in the 21st Century.



Not stupid at all.

The Z-Bots are the first all-tech generation. It has been overwhelmingly harmful to them.

They do not know how to communicate unless it's in the form of texting/sexting. That is not the real world and it certainly is not the business world.

They are unprepared. Online courses are a joke.

Having said that, there are courses that are appropriate for asynchronous online learning, like an anatomy course. How would class-room discussion facilitate understanding of dysplasia? It wouldn't.

As a favor for a friend, I recently taught an online course. She said it would be easy. She lied. Since there's no class-room and it's asynchronous, the university uses a discussion board on Blackboard which is basically the same operation as creating a thread or posting here on City-Data.

Discussions are posed NLT 11:59 PM on Wednesdays and students have to respond to at least 2 classmates NLT 11:59 PM Sundays.

First week, really bad initial posts and drive-by responses: "I agree with you" or "I like what you said."

I sent an email with the grading rubric attached and reminded them of the grading rubric.

Next week's discussion was on Supreme Court rulings related to high-speed pursuits. Same thing. Drive-by responses.

So I changed the rubric to minimum 500 word initial post and minimum 100 word response and they blew a gasket.

The older students, the ones in their 30s and 40s, no problem. Most of them were doing it right from the very start and couple emailed me and said they were glad I changed it.

Understand, these are criminal justice majors.

I mean, if you're a cop, are you gonna text a driver to stop? And then text them to get their license and registration out? If you're post-judicial or post-release, meaning a probation or parole officer, you can't text your charges. Nowhere in the criminal justice system do people communicate by text.

Everything is in-person face-to-face, or worst case scenarios on video (for lock-ups and prisoners) or by telephone.

If they don't know how to communicate, they're not gonna be working for very long, except maybe in fast-food.
I had a kid in college and a kid in HS when Covid happened and the schools shut down. I think I have a pretty darned good idea of how schools operate. Yes, I am aware of online school. I am also aware that the physical schools did, in fact, reopen at some point and students returned to in person classes and likely had a class or two online. The kids also continued to go to their in person jobs and socialized with their friends face to face. It was a bizarre time for sure, but they did alright.

When schools reopened, they went back like they hadn't missed a beat. Gen Z is pretty resilient from what I've seen.
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Old 08-17-2023, 07:49 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,122 posts, read 16,859,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
I had a kid in college and a kid in HS when Covid happened and the schools shut down. I think I have a pretty darned good idea of how schools operate. Yes, I am aware of online school. I am also aware that the physical schools did, in fact, reopen at some point and students returned to in person classes and likely had a class or two online. The kids also continued to go to their in person jobs and socialized with their friends face to face. It was a bizarre time for sure, but they did alright.

When schools reopened, they went back like they hadn't missed a beat. Gen Z is pretty resilient from what I've seen.
Your two kids do not represent an entire generation
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Old 08-17-2023, 08:02 PM
 
7,029 posts, read 3,363,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well they make up nearly 50% of the workforce now. It's frustrating for sure but they have a vastly different viewpoint on work/life balance issues.
And a vastly different viewpoint on entitlement as well.
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Old 08-17-2023, 08:06 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,122 posts, read 16,859,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
And a vastly different viewpoint on entitlement as well.
But somewhat expected if you study the rise and fall of empires.
They all undergo the same phases
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Old 08-17-2023, 08:11 PM
 
16,807 posts, read 16,037,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Your two kids do not represent an entire generation
No, they don't. But, from what I have seen, they are not atypical of their generation.

The Covid shut downs were an unprecidented interruption in these kids' educations, social lives and upbringing. These kids didn't set the Covid policies, the working adults implemented them.

If there is a negative fallout from those policies then the adults who made the policies should take accountability for it, learn from their mistakes and do better. To write off an entire generation of 9 to 24 year olds is really unfair if you ask me.






,
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Old 08-17-2023, 08:36 PM
 
7,029 posts, read 3,363,704 times
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When I was a hiring manager seeking new college hires, beyond the basics of coursework, I mostly looked for a positive attitude, raw smarts, and the ability to learn. Anything beyond that was gravy.

I don't recall needing to teach basic office etiquette or basics of work (e.g., show up on time appropriately dressed and prepared).

I do remember the first time some new college hire arrived with multiple nose piercings. My boss chewed me out. That was maybe 25 years ago - my boss is probably dead, and that new college hire with the nose piercings probably is a Director level manager.
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