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Old 08-18-2023, 11:14 AM
 
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People said similar things about millennials and gen X slackers. People were worried that boomer hippies were never going to straighten up. Have we considered that maybe young people are just young?
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Old 08-18-2023, 11:21 AM
 
1,696 posts, read 1,071,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
People said similar things about millennials and gen X slackers. People were worried that boomer hippies were never going to straighten up. Have we considered that maybe young people are just young?
I agree.

A friend of mine was given decent job offers before he even finished his University degree as he was very bright and (for lack of a better term) "born to succeed."

Depressingly many people don't even use their degrees. A friend of mine made more as a trucker than he did with his degree. So he trucked.
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Old 08-20-2023, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Where clams are a pizza topping
490 posts, read 223,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Um, most colleges are on-line. Perhaps you should join us in the 21st Century.



Not stupid at all.

The Z-Bots are the first all-tech generation. It has been overwhelmingly harmful to them.

They do not know how to communicate unless it's in the form of texting/sexting. That is not the real world and it certainly is not the business world.

They are unprepared. Online courses are a joke.

Having said that, there are courses that are appropriate for asynchronous online learning, like an anatomy course. How would class-room discussion facilitate understanding of dysplasia? It wouldn't.

As a favor for a friend, I recently taught an online course. She said it would be easy. She lied. Since there's no class-room and it's asynchronous, the university uses a discussion board on Blackboard which is basically the same operation as creating a thread or posting here on City-Data.

Discussions are posed NLT 11:59 PM on Wednesdays and students have to respond to at least 2 classmates NLT 11:59 PM Sundays.

First week, really bad initial posts and drive-by responses: "I agree with you" or "I like what you said."

I sent an email with the grading rubric attached and reminded them of the grading rubric.

Next week's discussion was on Supreme Court rulings related to high-speed pursuits. Same thing. Drive-by responses.

So I changed the rubric to minimum 500 word initial post and minimum 100 word response and they blew a gasket.

The older students, the ones in their 30s and 40s, no problem. Most of them were doing it right from the very start and couple emailed me and said they were glad I changed it.

Understand, these are criminal justice majors.

I mean, if you're a cop, are you gonna text a driver to stop? And then text them to get their license and registration out? If you're post-judicial or post-release, meaning a probation or parole officer, you can't text your charges. Nowhere in the criminal justice system do people communicate by text.

Everything is in-person face-to-face, or worst case scenarios on video (for lock-ups and prisoners) or by telephone.

If they don't know how to communicate, they're not gonna be working for very long, except maybe in fast-food.
From my experience teaching online at the undergrad level, the older students are the biggest contributors on discussion board, mainly because they tend to be more confident and less reticent to share their thoughts. Very much like a traditional classroom setting in that respect. Unfortunately for my online students, they cannot “hide” in class while a handful of their classmates do all of the heavy lifting: discussion board is a significant part of their grade and those who can’t or won’t contribute need to reconsider this mode of learning… possibly even their major.

I don’t worry too much about word count, but I do have a few rules:

1. No “I” statements
2. No “you” statements
3. Responses must meaningfully contribute to the discussion (ie. give your classmates something worth responding to)

Once in a while, I will request that they can only respond to posts they disagree with, because I have found that it gets students more open to discussion and helps them get used to respectfully and intelligently defending their position. The students who are there for the education tend to enjoy this discourse more than the students who are there for the “piece of paper”
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Old 08-20-2023, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,548 posts, read 2,190,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyLark2019 View Post
I agree.

A friend of mine was given decent job offers before he even finished his University degree as he was very bright and (for lack of a better term) "born to succeed."

Depressingly many people don't even use their degrees. A friend of mine made more as a trucker than he did with his degree. So he trucked.
I know a couple folks like that. Seems like a monumental waste of time, effort, and money. But in the end I guess they're happy with their choice of vocations.
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Old 08-20-2023, 12:02 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,046 posts, read 106,791,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
People said similar things about millennials and gen X slackers. People were worried that boomer hippies were never going to straighten up. Have we considered that maybe young people are just young?
Exactly what I was thinking. Plus, in every generation there are young people ready to hit the ground running, in the job world. One Gen Z-er whose parents I know, did exactly that. Studied physics in college with a partial scholarship from Los Alamos National Lab (he grew up nearby and did well in science in HS), working summers for the lab. Already had a great resume by graduation. Has been well-employed ever since. There are lots of stories like that out there. It's the underperforming ones that end up characterizing each generation, though. At least, in their early adult years.
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Old 08-20-2023, 03:14 PM
 
12,570 posts, read 8,801,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Turd Collector View Post
From my experience teaching online at the undergrad level, the older students are the biggest contributors on discussion board, mainly because they tend to be more confident and less reticent to share their thoughts. Very much like a traditional classroom setting in that respect. Unfortunately for my online students, they cannot “hide” in class while a handful of their classmates do all of the heavy lifting: discussion board is a significant part of their grade and those who can’t or won’t contribute need to reconsider this mode of learning… possibly even their major.

I don’t worry too much about word count, but I do have a few rules:

1. No “I” statements
2. No “you” statements
3. Responses must meaningfully contribute to the discussion (ie. give your classmates something worth responding to)

Once in a while, I will request that they can only respond to posts they disagree with, because I have found that it gets students more open to discussion and helps them get used to respectfully and intelligently defending their position. The students who are there for the education tend to enjoy this discourse more than the students who are there for the “piece of paper”
I love your approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Exactly what I was thinking. Plus, in every generation there are young people ready to hit the ground running, in the job world. One Gen Z-er whose parents I know, did exactly that. Studied physics in college with a partial scholarship from Los Alamos National Lab (he grew up nearby and did well in science in HS), working summers for the lab. Already had a great resume by graduation. Has been well-employed ever since. There are lots of stories like that out there. It's the underperforming ones that end up characterizing each generation, though. At least, in their early adult years.
Ruth, I'd love to agree with you because I do see some out there every day who would fit right in with the Greatest Generation if they had to. On the other hand, I've read a few thousand resumes over the last few years and seen a good number of new hires come in and what I'm not seeing is the big group of average applicants. Rather what I've seen the last few years has been like a bimodal distribution almost. Talking about recent grads, not long-time experienced employees in this group. Maybe 20% of the resumes are in the top group; another 20% average; around 60% below average; and a few that make me wonder how they found their way to class every day. It's not like there's a nice linear range like 1,2,3,4,5 but more like 0, 3, 5, 10. The top applicants are just that much ahead. There really seem to be a lot more who just went for the piece of paper than the education.
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Old 08-20-2023, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,548 posts, read 2,190,830 times
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In many cases, isn't just having the "piece of paper" the entrance ticket?
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Old 08-20-2023, 03:47 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,046 posts, read 106,791,525 times
Reputation: 115763
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Ruth, I'd love to agree with you because I do see some out there every day who would fit right in with the Greatest Generation if they had to. On the other hand, I've read a few thousand resumes over the last few years and seen a good number of new hires come in and what I'm not seeing is the big group of average applicants. Rather what I've seen the last few years has been like a bimodal distribution almost. Talking about recent grads, not long-time experienced employees in this group. Maybe 20% of the resumes are in the top group; another 20% average; around 60% below average; and a few that make me wonder how they found their way to class every day. It's not like there's a nice linear range like 1,2,3,4,5 but more like 0, 3, 5, 10. The top applicants are just that much ahead. There really seem to be a lot more who just went for the piece of paper than the education.
You spoiled my nice, upbeat story.
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Old 08-20-2023, 05:17 PM
 
12,570 posts, read 8,801,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
You spoiled my nice, upbeat story.
I'm sorry. Maybe this helps. That top 20% or so are outstanding. Doing things that most of us had never done by that same age period. That group is already presenting at conferences and have published papers by graduation. And taking on part time/co-op jobs while in college. Colleges that are involving undergrads in real world activities are setting their graduates up for success early on. I've been highly impressed by that group.

They're pulling the bar way up for everyone else.
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Old 08-20-2023, 05:34 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
10,218 posts, read 13,723,227 times
Reputation: 17998
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Since when has USA college (?) prepared a graduate for the workplace? USA college and profs are pretty clueless about the 'workplace', as are the students.


welcome to the 'new normal' (entitlements)


Yes, education is in trouble, and I trust the outcome will only improve educational opportunities. Covid was the once / century chance for USA edu to get it together, They failed. Opportunity lost.



With age 26 (healthcare, and car insurance paid by parents up until that age.)
being yesteryears' age 18... (voting, military, financially and legally self sufficient)

Expect immaturity in young adults.

Fewer kids are working FT before college, so they know little about what is expected of a FT employee. (I don't consider food service / grunt jobs requiring no intellectual or 'task-value-add' responsibilty as preparing anyone for a career / job / employment with major responsibility or commitment). Yes... a grunt worker may need to SHOW UP, but that doesn't equal, "You are responsible for the success of this business, and the safety of other employees, and driving company vehicles, operating equipment that could kill others, dealing with commercial accts..." It's a no starter.

Recent hires are very difficult to get up to speed. Employers should get a 'training credit' simiar to hiring ex-cons (who are usually much harder workers, and certainly more responsible and committed than USA college grads).

Green Card / immigrant grads... far better than USA grads, and with adequate incentive to WORK and stay employed.

vs...
Business leaders who responded to Intelligent's survey said Gen Z grads had negative traits, including a poor work ethic, sub-par communication skills, and a sense of entitlement.
Work full time before college? Good God I could write a page a day calendar with the stuff you spew out. Aside from your kids with their apparently successful businesses ( or is it farms, who can keep up?) most 18 year olds aren't that self sufficient these days because of economics. It's not maturity. You sound like you're about 90 years old and are living at the latest in the 80s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
Probably some of the problem is that Covid hit and schools shut down. How were students studying to become teachers able to do their student teaching when the schools were closed?

Some school districts had there physicals school closed for 2 years. So, yes, if those students only got an online simulation of teaching during Covid they may have some unrealistic expectations going into a real teaching position.

It should be obvious from their resume that they've never student taught in a physical school before. They are going to need to be brought up to speed.
The schools have long since reopened. If they couldn't figure out how to postpone it and then do it when the schools reopened they aren't smart enough to be teachers anyway. If the universities didn't make them student teach then they absolutely failed at their jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well they make up nearly 50% of the workforce now. It's frustrating for sure but they have a vastly different viewpoint on work/life balance issues.
I think the belief these days is that there really is no reason to just bend over and take it from the boss. Maybe work to live instead of live to work. Boomers have their panties in a twist over that.
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