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Old 08-20-2023, 11:09 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 15,980,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I'm sorry. Maybe this helps. That top 20% or so are outstanding. Doing things that most of us had never done by that same age period. That group is already presenting at conferences and have published papers by graduation. And taking on part time/co-op jobs while in college. Colleges that are involving undergrads in real world activities are setting their graduates up for success early on. I've been highly impressed by that group.

They're pulling the bar way up for everyone else.
You mean they are the people that were traditionally those who went to college before we had that great big “everybody go to college” push? Every generation has had their top 20% and their bottom 50%. The issue in some ways is that these days almost 61% of students go to college as opposed to the 33% when I went in the early 70’s, so it’s a lot harder to automatically sort people by requiring degrees.
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Old 08-21-2023, 09:15 AM
 
12,552 posts, read 8,767,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
You mean they are the people that were traditionally those who went to college before we had that great big “everybody go to college” push? Every generation has had their top 20% and their bottom 50%. The issue in some ways is that these days almost 61% of students go to college as opposed to the 33% when I went in the early 70’s, so it’s a lot harder to automatically sort people by requiring degrees.
Excellent insight. Thank you.
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Old 08-21-2023, 10:55 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
101,999 posts, read 106,624,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
You mean they are the people that were traditionally those who went to college before we had that great big “everybody go to college” push? Every generation has had their top 20% and their bottom 50%. The issue in some ways is that these days almost 61% of students go to college as opposed to the 33% when I went in the early 70’s, so it’s a lot harder to automatically sort people by requiring degrees.
But even back in the 70's, a BA wasn't a guarantee of a living wage. One still had to get an MA, AKA a "professional degree" or law school or whatever, to get something above an office admin job, or a grunt lab job (though one that payed decently) for science majors, and the like. Entry-level stuff. And even those were scarce. There was some kind of federal incentive program going on, that compensated employers for hiring new college grads for what were still called secretarial/office assistant jobs at the time. New grads considered themselves lucky to get one. There was a recession happening, due in part to the oil embargo.
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Old 08-21-2023, 11:23 AM
 
16,833 posts, read 16,082,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
You mean they are the people that were traditionally those who went to college before we had that great big “everybody go to college” push? Every generation has had their top 20% and their bottom 50%. The issue in some ways is that these days almost 61% of students go to college as opposed to the 33% when I went in the early 70’s, so it’s a lot harder to automatically sort people by requiring degrees.
Going to college doesn't necessarily mean graduating from college. I don't think that college degrees are any more or less worthy than they were back in the day.

Many didn't graduate back then and many, many more don't graduate now.
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Old 08-21-2023, 11:25 AM
 
16,833 posts, read 16,082,779 times
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
But even back in the 70's, a BA wasn't a guarantee of a living wage. One still had to get an MA, AKA a "professional degree" or law school or whatever, to get something above an office admin job, or a grunt lab job (though one that payed decently) for science majors, and the like. Entry-level stuff. And even those were scarce. There was some kind of federal incentive program going on, that compensated employers for hiring new college grads for what were still called secretarial/office assistant jobs at the time. New grads considered themselves lucky to get one. There was a recession happening, due in part to the oil embargo.
Nah. Back in the day, you got your BA and then went to work at an entry level job. You worked, gained experience and then applied for a better paying job with more responsibility.

It still works like that today.

Piling degrees on top of a degree is not always necessary nor is it wise.
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Old 08-21-2023, 11:34 AM
 
16,833 posts, read 16,082,779 times
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Originally Posted by NDak15 View Post


The schools have long since reopened. If they couldn't figure out how to postpone it and then do it when the schools reopened they aren't smart enough to be teachers anyway. If the universities didn't make them student teach then they absolutely failed at their jobs.


.
Physical schools were closed for a year, even two in some states. Covid closures were being billed as our "new normal". You seriously think that teaching majors delayed graduating from college due to those policies?

Like I said, I don't know how things worked with student teaching during that unprecedented time but it stands to reason that at least a certain percentage of students were unable to student teach at the physical schools.

Blaming them for the school closures is not fair.
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Old 08-21-2023, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,548 posts, read 2,186,842 times
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I've occasionally talked to folks who, upon being newly hired, said that they were told "Forget what you learned in school. That's not the way we do it here. You'll be trained."

I would imagine that's not very common but it does happen.
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Old 08-21-2023, 12:09 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
10,185 posts, read 13,690,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
Physical schools were closed for a year, even two in some states. Covid closures were being billed as our "new normal". You seriously think that teaching majors delayed graduating from college due to those policies?

Like I said, I don't know how things worked with student teaching during that unprecedented time but it stands to reason that at least a certain percentage of students were unable to student teach at the physical schools.

Blaming them for the school closures is not fair.
If they worked on a degree for that long and then chose not to finish because of a delay they shouldn't be teaching. That's a pretty **** poor work ethic. I'm not one of those loony COVID deniers but we need to stop blaming that for everything. It's been two years. The world has moved on.
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Old 08-21-2023, 12:24 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
101,999 posts, read 106,624,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I'm sorry. Maybe this helps. That top 20% or so are outstanding. Doing things that most of us had never done by that same age period. That group is already presenting at conferences and have published papers by graduation. And taking on part time/co-op jobs while in college. Colleges that are involving undergrads in real world activities are setting their graduates up for success early on. I've been highly impressed by that group.

They're pulling the bar way up for everyone else.
OK. That's probably the "lots of" that I had in mind. I can see how, from a recruiting perspective, 20% isn't enough.
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Old 08-21-2023, 01:12 PM
 
16,833 posts, read 16,082,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDak15 View Post
If they worked on a degree for that long and then chose not to finish because of a delay they shouldn't be teaching. That's a pretty **** poor work ethic. I'm not one of those loony COVID deniers but we need to stop blaming that for everything. It's been two years. The world has moved on.
Well, I don't recall teaching students being denied graduation because they lacked the opportunity to student teach in the physical schools. It seems as though they were either granted an exception or they did an alternative form of student teaching (online?) which may or may not have prepared them for what to expect in the physical schools.

I was not a part of any of that decision making so I do not have any inside details about how this was all handled.

Some states/school districts handled things better than others did.
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