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Old 09-13-2023, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
But I will go back to pay versus cost of living in a particular area.
I just Googled "social worker salary NYC" and got $46k-$86k on Indeed-dot-com. When you can show me that teaching requires more education and is physically or mentally harder than being a social worker, then I'll play a sad song on my violin for you. I am simply not impressed by 22 year old girls making a $65k starting salary anywhere and crying poverty, when their counterparts in other professions are making way less.
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Old 09-13-2023, 09:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I can say something similar for most professions.
Exactly. Which means education is not the vastly underpaid job it's made out to be.

And when you consider that most professions require somewhere around 1900 hours per year after allowing for vacation and time off whereas a teaching year is somewhere around 185-190 days or somewhere around 1400 hours, give or take depending on the specific contract, that means teachers are paid roughly 25% MORE per hour worked than other professionals.
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Old 09-13-2023, 03:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Exactly. Which means education is not the vastly underpaid job it's made out to be.

And when you consider that most professions require somewhere around 1900 hours per year after allowing for vacation and time off...
In my experience, professionals in the private sector, when coasting, will work about 50 hours per week. A normal week is about 60. During crunches make that 70+ hours per week. So, for a 50 week year (2 weeks of vacation), figure 20 weeks @ 50, another 20 @ 60, and 10 weeks @ 70. That's 2900 hours per calendar year. Of course, if you're involved in more crunch projects, that number goes up.
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Old 09-13-2023, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Exactly. Which means education is not the vastly underpaid job it's made out to be.

And when you consider that most professions require somewhere around 1900 hours per year after allowing for vacation and time off whereas a teaching year is somewhere around 185-190 days or somewhere around 1400 hours, give or take depending on the specific contract, that means teachers are paid roughly 25% MORE per hour worked than other professionals.
Of course as the old cigarette commercial on TV said: "It's not how long you make it, it's how you make it long!" I've seen people in my field generate more value in 20 minutes than many drone workers do all day long.

And my grade school teachers, for the most part, were drones. I had a handful who actually benefited me, but most were very much like the teacher on Charlie Brown cartoons: "Mwah blah blah mwah". I was in the 4th grade before I got my first decent teacher. The first 3 years were a total waste of time, nothing was presented that I didn't already know.

Of course this was the rural South, so maybe in other places it was done better.

In America, a few people go into teaching with noble intentions. But I think the bulk of public school teachers firstly chose a major in college where they would not be stressed and could have plenty of time for partying after study, and went on to a low-stress, if not particularly prestigious or well paying job. Sort of like the image of working at the Post Office.
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Old 09-13-2023, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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No idea how this problem will work out.
We are concerned, but have no grandchildren. I imagine that any grandchild(ren) will have supplementary private tutoring beyond any public-private schooling.

I started DS on keyboarding, number, alphabet, soon after he began to walk~1987.
He got his own computer at 6th grade (middle school, 1996) Encarta and slow menu driven internet, was his tutors. He was one of a few kids to have a computer. Today, an $159, Android tablet is good enough and every 3yo must have one along with internet access.

I am worried about children having the proper role models.
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Old 09-13-2023, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
I always assumed that as technology improved, the traditional high school and college models would change. There would be more self directed learning in terms of students being able to choose their educators from anywhere and build their unique educational resume. For example, a top notch biology professor would be able to enroll as many students online in her courses as possible and would be compensated accordingly. A high school math teacher, known for his sense of humor and skills in teaching his challenging subject, could attract many students who had troubles learning with their local mediocre math teacher.

HR professionals would be looking for graduates who studied under A, B & C versus attending a particular university. Certain fields would start building lists of recommended educators.

So, not just school choice, but educator choice.
And you see that happening a lot?
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Old 09-13-2023, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,903 posts, read 23,645,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Exactly. Which means education is not the vastly underpaid job it's made out to be.

And when you consider that most professions require somewhere around 1900 hours per year after allowing for vacation and time off whereas a teaching year is somewhere around 185-190 days or somewhere around 1400 hours, give or take depending on the specific contract, that means teachers are paid roughly 25% MORE per hour worked than other professionals.
I'm still hoping that someday I'll see you write something good about the American education system.

I forgot...did I ever ask you what your profession is?
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Old 09-13-2023, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
American classrooms need more educators. Can virtual teachers step in to bridge the gap?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...e/70712191007/

The article cites some progress in using virtual/remote teachers. While not ideal, it seems to add some value sometimes.
Well, if one does, just make sure to avoid so it is not like Arab countries where the women attend by camera and telephone (at least the decades past they did).

Now, on a different point, the pandemic did an excellent job of killing my troupe dancing because it all went virtual. I dance to be part of the troupe, to be there with people, and when I am doing it alone infront of a TV screen, my spirit dies. I was never one for dance videos.

Will we lose something significant by being heavily virtual? On the basis of that alone, I don't think so because, as said, people have been doing it for decades. Ie, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_the_Air

BUT, in our modern world, things are not the same as they were in past decades. Hence, there may be complicating variables that we need to look out for, especially those we are unaware of.
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Old 09-13-2023, 09:47 PM
 
12,526 posts, read 8,740,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'm still hoping that someday I'll see you write something good about the American education system.

I forgot...did I ever ask you what your profession is?
I based my statement off:

a. The public record pay of teachers in my district was in the $70K to $90K range.
b. Your statement that you "could say something similar for most professions."
c. The typical definition used by HRs for a full time equivalent position of around 1900 hours, after allowing for time off policies. Didn't make any claims about overtime.
d. The typical education contract year of somewhere between 180-190 days and 8 hours per day.

The math simply works out how it works out. Which part do you disagree with? Which part is "something bad" about education?

My profession? A lot of things. Educated as a physicist. Operations Research. System Engineering. Air War College. A few other certifications. Served in the USAF. RDT&E afterward. Little bit of this and that which no one is interested in. Ultimately my profession became finding and fixing problems. That's enough resume for CD.

By the way, one doesn't need to be a chef to know the difference between a fast-food burger and Beef Wellington.
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Old 09-13-2023, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,997 posts, read 7,109,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
What do we get for the extra $20K? I just looked up the salaries of our local teachers. Those at the top end are over a hundred K per year and I'm not convinced we're getting that much value out of them. The typical teachers seemed to be in the $70K - $90K range.
You have to have ~20 years to make it to that level probably. Not many teachers are making it that long. Median quit year used to be 7. I'd wager after Covid it's more like 4.

Pay more and I bet you'll get better and more qualified applicants. Funny how that works.
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