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Old 09-13-2023, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,973 posts, read 23,693,746 times
Reputation: 32443

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I based my statement off:

a. The public record pay of teachers in my district was in the $70K to $90K range.
b. Your statement that you "could say something similar for most professions."
c. The typical definition used by HRs for a full time equivalent position of around 1900 hours, after allowing for time off policies. Didn't make any claims about overtime.
d. The typical education contract year of somewhere between 180-190 days and 8 hours per day.

The math simply works out how it works out. Which part do you disagree with? Which part is "something bad" about education?

My profession? A lot of things. Educated as a physicist. Operations Research. System Engineering. Air War College. A few other certifications. Served in the USAF. RDT&E afterward. Little bit of this and that which no one is interested in. Ultimately my profession became finding and fixing problems. That's enough resume for CD.

By the way, one doesn't need to be a chef to know the difference between a fast-food burger and Beef Wellington.
I presume you did not go to public schools at any time in your life.
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Old 09-13-2023, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,999 posts, read 7,121,215 times
Reputation: 17090
Where are you guys located with these 65k starting teacher salaries!?!? Point me there!

In my area the K-12 teachers start at 49k, end at about 88k with 20 years in, and median home price is something like 650k.

Butbevery employer in my whole area is reeling from the rapid housing cost increase since 2020. It took them a while to grok that CoL here freaking doubled in short order and they have to respond.

But I think they're starting to get it. Big breakthrough was a nurse's strike at the hospital. They got something like 27% raises. I've been noticing businesses in general getting improvements in staffing... and they're raising their prices. They have to be paying more.

The K-12 district has their negotiations this fall. I fully expect a strike.

Last edited by redguard57; 09-14-2023 at 12:11 AM..
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Old 09-14-2023, 08:00 AM
 
19,406 posts, read 17,617,022 times
Reputation: 16964
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Where are you guys located with these 65k starting teacher salaries!?!? Point me there!

In my area the K-12 teachers start at 49k, end at about 88k with 20 years in, and median home price is something like 650k.

Butbevery employer in my whole area is reeling from the rapid housing cost increase since 2020. It took them a while to grok that CoL here freaking doubled in short order and they have to respond.

But I think they're starting to get it. Big breakthrough was a nurse's strike at the hospital. They got something like 27% raises. I've been noticing businesses in general getting improvements in staffing... and they're raising their prices. They have to be paying more.

The K-12 district has their negotiations this fall. I fully expect a strike.
Great an inflationary doom-loop.
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Old 09-14-2023, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Kansas
25,468 posts, read 21,652,001 times
Reputation: 26043
Online education is the future. I subbed in an Alternative Education classroom with high school students, and it was an ideal setting. With all the violence and nonsense going on in the schools, not to mention falling scores, I see this as the only answer. Millions of new students will be going into districts that do not speak English.

For those that need more assistance, a classroom could be set up, but for many remaining at home would work, and allow a student to get the same education in 3 or 4 hours that they spend a whole day on in the public schools with teachers. No more kids having to lose time due to discipline issues with certain students, and parents knowing exactly what their kids were being taught or not. Win for everyone!
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Old 09-14-2023, 08:39 AM
 
12,552 posts, read 8,767,237 times
Reputation: 34319
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I presume you did not go to public schools at any time in your life.
Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Where are you guys located with these 65k starting teacher salaries!?!? Point me there!

In my area the K-12 teachers start at 49k, end at about 88k with 20 years in, and median home price is something like 650k.

Butbevery employer in my whole area is reeling from the rapid housing cost increase since 2020. It took them a while to grok that CoL here freaking doubled in short order and they have to respond.

But I think they're starting to get it. Big breakthrough was a nurse's strike at the hospital. They got something like 27% raises. I've been noticing businesses in general getting improvements in staffing... and they're raising their prices. They have to be paying more.

The K-12 district has their negotiations this fall. I fully expect a strike.
Didn't say "starting;" I said typical. Local gov salaries are public record and posted online. Typical as in most of the teachers fell in that range.
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Old 09-14-2023, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,908 posts, read 7,245,693 times
Reputation: 15994
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Where are you guys located with these 65k starting teacher salaries!?!? Point me there!
New York City. I'm sure there are other places with similar starting salaries.

Don't give me "cost of living in NYC", though. My co-worker was born in the Bronx and his mother was an NYC teacher. They moved out to Morris County, NJ and she kept teaching in the city. That's not an easy commute, so it must have been a lucrative gig.

Quote:
In my area the K-12 teachers start at 49k, end at about 88k with 20 years in, and median home price is something like 650k.
Again, cost of living in your city means nothing. What to the cops and firemen make? Where do they live?

Where I live, an exurb of NYC, the "average" teacher salary is purported to be $63k a year. That's for "all" teachers including Catholic and charter schools, so that brings the average down somewhat. I'm sure public school teachers do better than the average.

Before you tell me how low $63k is, let me say that my wife is a masters-level social worker who supervises bachelor-level social workers at her job, and that's around her salary. As I've said before, no teacher gets a sad song on the violin from me because I know what similar professionals make.

https://mint.intuit.com/salary/teach...0%20per%20year.
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Old 09-14-2023, 09:21 AM
 
7,138 posts, read 3,412,115 times
Reputation: 13617
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Y
Pay more and I bet you'll get better and more qualified applicants. Funny how that works.
Yes, of course. Pay breaks down into monetary and non-monetary compensation. Non-monetary compensation includes the usual suspects of pensions, employer-paid health care, etc etc etc -- and the nebulous "working conditions." I read that working conditions are very important to teachers - and that bureaucratic overhead is a big negative in that category.
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Old 09-14-2023, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,999 posts, read 7,121,215 times
Reputation: 17090
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Great an inflationary doom-loop.
Have to increase the supply of housing if they want something different.
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Old 09-14-2023, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,999 posts, read 7,121,215 times
Reputation: 17090
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Why?



Didn't say "starting;" I said typical. Local gov salaries are public record and posted online. Typical as in most of the teachers fell in that range.
So the ones that haven't quit.
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Old 09-14-2023, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,999 posts, read 7,121,215 times
Reputation: 17090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
New York City. I'm sure there are other places with similar starting salaries.

Don't give me "cost of living in NYC", though. My co-worker was born in the Bronx and his mother was an NYC teacher. They moved out to Morris County, NJ and she kept teaching in the city. That's not an easy commute, so it must have been a lucrative gig.


Again, cost of living in your city means nothing. What to the cops and firemen make? Where do they live?

Where I live, an exurb of NYC, the "average" teacher salary is purported to be $63k a year. That's for "all" teachers including Catholic and charter schools, so that brings the average down somewhat. I'm sure public school teachers do better than the average.

Before you tell me how low $63k is, let me say that my wife is a masters-level social worker who supervises bachelor-level social workers at her job, and that's around her salary. As I've said before, no teacher gets a sad song on the violin from me because I know what similar professionals make.

https://mint.intuit.com/salary/teach...0%20per%20year.
Cost of living means everything. In my area, until 2020 teaching was an okay gig. Teaching jobs got LOTS of applicants. By 2022 there was a major shortage. Lots of quits and recruitment in the toilet. It's been shocking just HOW MUCH recruitment collapsed. I mean it literally went from 100 applicants for 1 job to like 6:1 and none of them qualified.
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