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Old 09-14-2023, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,999 posts, read 7,121,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
Yes, of course. Pay breaks down into monetary and non-monetary compensation. Non-monetary compensation includes the usual suspects of pensions, employer-paid health care, etc etc etc -- and the nebulous "working conditions." I read that working conditions are very important to teachers - and that bureaucratic overhead is a big negative in that category.
You can't eat a pension or health insurance, nor will either put a roof over your head. When CoL was cheaper those were considerations. But now no one cares. You might even be worse off on the health insurance side if your previous income qualified you for Medicaid. A teaching job is low income but not Medicaid low.

20k. Will work like magic.
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Old 09-14-2023, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,908 posts, read 7,245,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Cost of living means everything. In my area, until 2020 teaching was an okay gig...
Not when you are talking about housing price spikes. Earlier you mentioned a sudden spike in house prices, up to something like $650k in your city. That has nothing to do with how much teachers, firemen, or cops are paid, or else they'd all get pay cuts after the housing prices start to drop.

I have nothing against teachers, but I will ask how recruitment of new cops has been going in your town since 2020. We have a cultural problem, not a problem that can be cured by simply offering more money for certain professions.
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Old 09-14-2023, 01:26 PM
 
19,406 posts, read 17,617,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Have to increase the supply of housing if they want something different.
As the great Frank Knight has been credited, "there is no they only us."
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Old 09-14-2023, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Not when you are talking about housing price spikes. Earlier you mentioned a sudden spike in house prices, up to something like $650k in your city. That has nothing to do with how much teachers, firemen, or cops are paid, or else they'd all get pay cuts after the housing prices start to drop.

I have nothing against teachers, but I will ask how recruitment of new cops has been going in your town since 2020. We have a cultural problem, not a problem that can be cured by simply offering more money for certain professions.
Similarly poor. The police chief complains at every city council meeting about a shortage of officers. They've had some success creating a new department to handle lower intensity mental health calls which made it where the existing officers workload eased. But last council meeting I went to, he said they were still short officers. But the city raised salaries for their entire workforce last year, so while they are still short, they're not as short as 2021-22, when it was almost crisis level. The city is doing quite nicely on money - the increased home valuations are filling their coffers with property tax money.

*Just looked at the new police contract. It's pretty good. Sworn officers start at 78k, end at 95k, collapsed the scale down to 5 steps. I don't remember exactly what their old pay was, but I think it was at least 10k less than that and more steps to get to the top. (it looks they negotiated something along the lines of 20% raises over 3 years)

Not sure about fire. I do know EMTs are in short supply though.

The police department went through the same thing my workplace did, and the K-12 district did - between 2020 and 21, massive quits & retirements all at once, and recruitment pools basically non-existent. It looks like for the police department this was extreme. They had over 20% of their officers quit or retire in 1 year.

Looks like the K-12 district is the last major public employer in the area to have contract negotiations post-Covid. From my workplace and what I can tell from the other agencies, most have increased their salary scales about 15-20% by 2025-26. Not sure how the school district will go, but if they don't match that, it'll be a strike.

Last edited by redguard57; 09-14-2023 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 09-14-2023, 02:17 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,540 posts, read 17,069,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Similarly poor. The police chief complains at every city council meeting about a shortage of officers. They've had some success creating a new department to handle lower intensity mental health calls which made it where the existing officers workload eased. But last council meeting I went to, he said they were still short officers. But the city raised salaries for their entire workforce last year, so while they are still short, they're not as short as 2021-22, when it was almost crisis level. The city is doing quite nicely on money - the increased home valuations are filling their coffers with property tax money.

*Just looked at the new police contract. It's pretty good. Sworn officers start at 78k, end at 95k, collapsed the scale down to 5 steps. I don't remember exactly what their old pay was, but I think it was at least 10k less than that and more steps to get to the top. (it looks they negotiated something along the lines of 20% raises over 3 years)

Not sure about fire. I do know EMTs are in short supply though.
But they wouldn't be able to live in that area if homes there are $650K...
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Old 09-14-2023, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,999 posts, read 7,121,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
But they wouldn't be able to live in that area if homes there are $650K...
Probably why there's still a shortage. But they're a hell of a lot better off at 78k than the 49k a starting teacher gets! Also, if they're dual income or willing to compromise for the fixers around 500k, they can get something.

Also, if they get promoted they get more. Corporals 84-103. Sergeants 93-113.

Teachers are paid less than the record clerks, the lowest paid job class in the police union - 55k-67k. !!!

I mean for real... I've been doing doordash and uber, and I think I can make 40k off that in a year if I keep it up. That's for the skills a reasonably competent 16 year old has. Almost a teacher salary!
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Old 09-14-2023, 02:31 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,540 posts, read 17,069,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Probably why there's still a shortage. But they're a hell of a lot better off at 78k than the 49k a starting teacher gets! Also, if they're dual income or willing to compromise for the fixers around 500k, they can get something.

I mean for real... I've been doing doordash and uber, and I think I can make 40k off that in a year if I keep it up. That's for the skills a reasonably competent 16 year old has. Almost a teacher salary!
Both are better off moving to places that are not overpriced for their wages.

Those are decent wages but not for where you are living.
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Old 09-14-2023, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,999 posts, read 7,121,215 times
Reputation: 17090
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Both are better off moving to places that are not overpriced for their wages.

Those are decent wages but not for where you are living.
If they all leave, then how will the community function without police, teachers, etc.!?

They could fix some of this by building some g-d housing. Lots of it. The way it's going, this place is going to be populated by the wealthy and the homeless, little else.

I'm a little optimistic, since there was substantial public support when the nurses went on strike, and the hospital system gave in to most of what they asked for pretty quick once they realized that. It leaked out that the hospital system's negotiators told the nurses they needed to marry someone who made more money or live an hour away to own a house. The public got really pissed when that leaked.

I think teachers will get similar support when they strike.
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Old 09-14-2023, 03:02 PM
 
12,552 posts, read 8,767,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
So the ones that haven't quit.
I'm not sure how you make that assumption. I said "most." There are some that make in the $100K plus range, mostly dept heads and such. And there are some that make in the $50K range that are new hires. Does no good to talk about the extreme ends of the scale because that distorts the conversation.
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Old 09-14-2023, 04:05 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,540 posts, read 17,069,919 times
Reputation: 34076
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
If they all leave, then how will the community function without police, teachers, etc.!?

They could fix some of this by building some g-d housing. Lots of it. The way it's going, this place is going to be populated by the wealthy and the homeless, little else.

I'm a little optimistic, since there was substantial public support when the nurses went on strike, and the hospital system gave in to most of what they asked for pretty quick once they realized that. It leaked out that the hospital system's negotiators told the nurses they needed to marry someone who made more money or live an hour away to own a house. The public got really pissed when that leaked.

I think teachers will get similar support when they strike.
You need the equivalent of "public housing" only now it's for the middle class in your community.

The high RE/rents are killing people...a housing bubble on top of inflation...a double whammy
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