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Old 09-10-2023, 08:29 AM
 
7,026 posts, read 3,363,704 times
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American classrooms need more educators. Can virtual teachers step in to bridge the gap?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...e/70712191007/

The article cites some progress in using virtual/remote teachers. While not ideal, it seems to add some value sometimes.
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Old 09-10-2023, 09:56 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,721 posts, read 59,606,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
American classrooms need more educators. Can virtual teachers step in to bridge the gap?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...e/70712191007/

The article cites some progress in using virtual/remote teachers. While not ideal, it seems to add some value sometimes.
WE did that during Covid. How'd that work out?
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Old 09-11-2023, 09:45 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 15,960,329 times
Reputation: 28262
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
WE did that during Covid. How'd that work out?
Beat me to it.

Honestly, my fear is that we are going to go to this model more and more - out of necessity rather than choice. Enrollment in college education programs continue to decrease at an alarming rate. Students have caught the message, being a teacher is a thankless job with low pay in comparison to other professions so they aren’t majoring in education. We have districts around here where almost 100% of their new hires were some form alt certification from “grow your own” former aides to whatever warm body with a high school diploma that showed up. Teachers quitting mid-year, once practically unheard of, now is no longer even a surprise and you just hope they give you some kind of notice.

When I think of all the decent teachers through the years that were tossed away without a second thought for incredibly petty reasons by some principals and look how desperate we are just to get someone who might work out I get a little ill.

One of the first reforms that might help stop this trend is getting rid of all the excess people in Central Offices. Not only are they sucking up all the money that should’ve been going to raises for teachers in the classroom, but the good ideals, nifty programs, mandatory reports and onerous assessments they dream up to justify their jobs which end up creating mounds of extra work for classroom teachers are large part of excessive stress that is creating the exodus from the classroom.

It is highly ironic that federal laws such as No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top, which were made in an effort to “improve” education by holding “bad teachers” accountable, have in actuality been instrumental in leading to a lowering of teacher quality.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 09-11-2023, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,889 posts, read 23,631,391 times
Reputation: 32384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Beat me to it.

Honestly, my fear is that we are going to go to this model more and more - out of necessity rather than choice. Enrollment in college education programs continue to decrease at an alarming rate. Students have caught the message, being a teacher is a thankless job with low pay in comparison to other professions so they aren’t majoring in education. We have districts around here where almost 100% of their new hires were some form alt certification from “grow your own” former aides to whatever warm body with a high school diploma that showed up. Teachers quitting mid-year, once practically unheard of, now is no longer even a surprise and you just hope they give you some kind of notice.

When I think of all the decent teachers through the years that were tossed away without a second thought for incredibly petty reasons by some principals and look how desperate we are just to get someone who might work out I get a little ill.

One of the first reforms that might help stop this trend is getting rid of all the excess people in Central Offices. Not only are they sucking up all the money that should’ve been going to raises for teachers in the classroom, but the good ideals, nifty programs, mandatory reports and onerous assessments they dream up to justify their jobs which end up creating mounds of extra work for classroom teachers are large part of excessive stress that is creating the exodus from the classroom.

It is highly ironic that federal laws such as No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top, which were made in an effort to “improve” education by holding “bad teachers” accountable, have in actuality been instrumental in leading to a lowering of teacher quality.
You know, "the excess people in Central Offices" thing is sort of one of those 'in the eye of the beholder' things. In fact, with the diverstiy of your work experiences, were you ever in a position where you may have been looked at in that way?

As a principal, I don't recall ever seeing a position in the 'central office(s)' that were not of value. What I do remember seeing is individuals in those positions that were sometimes not worthy.

What I am sensing in recent years is that too much 'busy work' is being placed on the shoulders of teachers. General over-supervision of teachers, instead heavy supervision of the few teachers who most needed supervision.

I've seen NCLB work well. But that doesn't mean that I think it has all been wise. NCLB was nothing more than the same kind of 'consumerism' that has affected many businesses. And some of it is fake. It started with American cars, which had gotten junky, and the American people revolted. But now there's a lot of fake responding to consumerism. The other day I went into CVS and bought Q-tips. I've since gotten 2 emails asking me to reivew my purchase. Do I really believe they care if I liked my Q-tips? I recently had a negative experience at an urgent care facility and responded in no uncertain terms to their request for feedback to my visit. Do I really think they read my review? Apparently not, because if I had had a client that negative, I would have contacted them. And this is what I think is happening in education: reams of required lesson plans and other paperwork that is pretty much not even being reviewd. Make-work.
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Old 09-11-2023, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,894 posts, read 7,225,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
American classrooms need more educators. Can virtual teachers step in to bridge the gap?
No, they can't. We have a cultural problem in America, not a logistical problem.

My wife works in pre-K at a non-profit. She is seeing more and more 3 year olds coming to the program still in diapers. More and more parents who are more interested in looking at their phones than in what the therapist/teacher is telling them about their child. More and more parents that want a diagnosis for their kids -- not so they can help their kids but so they can get SSI -- and for the program to deal with the "problem".

Virtual teachers may help in a few model districts with a high percentage of wealthy two-parent households but these are the last people who need help.
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Old 09-11-2023, 02:13 PM
 
18,451 posts, read 15,349,857 times
Reputation: 16053
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
American classrooms need more educators. Can virtual teachers step in to bridge the gap?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...e/70712191007/

The article cites some progress in using virtual/remote teachers. While not ideal, it seems to add some value sometimes.
It is immoral, in my opinion, to deprive an entire generation of a proper education simply because the previous generation couldn't get its act together. Especially while also passing onto them a planet with deteriorating climate and an enormous and unsustainable national debt.
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Old 09-11-2023, 02:20 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,721 posts, read 59,606,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
It is immoral, in my opinion, to deprive an entire generation of a proper education simply because the previous generation couldn't get its act together. Especially while also passing onto them a planet with deteriorating climate and an enormous and unsustainable national debt.
Which generation are you referencing? Tread carefully.
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Old 09-11-2023, 04:33 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,495 posts, read 57,246,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
WE did that during Covid. How'd that work out?
Can't replicate a failed system and expect it to work.

Just like bringing USA classroom education ito the home and call it 'schooling-at-home'. Nothing could be farther from effective education (Other than nothing, which is essentially what the 'educated(?)' USA public education system attempted to do for Covid).

A totally different (and effective) education system very well may include a lot of 'differences' Probably a lot of virtual teaching elements as well. (Closed ears and mind = USA EDU system)

"That won't work!" Blah, Blah, Blah

Time will tell... as we clearly see other countries sprinting ahead with the effective EDU of their populace.

We don't have to live (educate) in a vacuum, but choose to do so.
Quote:
How'd that work out?
Check the stats (including Covid era)
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Old 09-11-2023, 05:48 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 15,960,329 times
Reputation: 28262
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You know, "the excess people in Central Offices" thing is sort of one of those 'in the eye of the beholder' things. In fact, with the diverstiy of your work experiences, were you ever in a position where you may have been looked at in that way?
lol - Touché.

I did try very hard to always gauge what burden I was placing on the average classroom teachers or other employees in the trenches. Some dumpage simply could not be avoided because of state or federal requirements but many of the district originated workloads were a different story. True story, one year budget cuts resulted in the loss of a number of Central Office admin assistants, including secretaries dedicated to the three assistant superintendents, and it was amazing how many weekly/monthly reports those assistant superintendents suddenly no longer needed and building level turnover that year was the most stable it had been in years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
As a principal, I don't recall ever seeing a position in the 'central office(s)' that were not of value. What I do remember seeing is individuals in those positions that were sometimes not worthy.
Based on the time frame you were in I would tend to agree with this assessment but the bloat has grown quite a bit over the last decade or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What I am sensing in recent years is that too much 'busy work' is being placed on the shoulders of teachers. General over-supervision of teachers, instead heavy supervision of the few teachers who most needed supervision.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I've seen NCLB work well. But that doesn't mean that I think it has all been wise. NCLB was nothing more than the same kind of 'consumerism' that has affected many businesses. And some of it is fake. It started with American cars, which had gotten junky, and the American people revolted. But now there's a lot of fake responding to consumerism. The other day I went into CVS and bought Q-tips. I've since gotten 2 emails asking me to reivew my purchase. Do I really believe they care if I liked my Q-tips? I recently had a negative experience at an urgent care facility and responded in no uncertain terms to their request for feedback to my visit. Do I really think they read my review? Apparently not, because if I had had a client that negative, I would have contacted them. And this is what I think is happening in education: reams of required lesson plans and other paperwork that is pretty much not even being reviewd. Make-work.
I thought the original shake up of NCLB was good, particularly making sure educators were actually qualified to teach the subject they taught. There was a school system in my native Kentucky that had an assistant principal who had not even graduated high school, I kid you not. I was flabbergasted by the number of veteran educators that could not pass the Praxis for subjects they taught for years. But, at some point, the non-local oversight crossed over from helpful in improving education to damaging both the students and the education profession. The over use of standardized testing is a huge part of the problem.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 09-11-2023, 07:29 PM
 
1,039 posts, read 1,035,341 times
Reputation: 1477
Um, no, it can't. You know what would solve the teacher shortage?

Living wages. Educators in my area are paid comparatively well, but that is not true in other parts of the nation. Professionals deserve a professional salary.

Autonomy. Not saying teaching should be a free-for-all, but a local admin and/or government that micromanages every single detail of a classroom lesson is going to cause a problem.

Respect. The teacher bashing that happens across the country is alarming.

Try those things before replacing us with robots or jamming 50 students in a classroom.
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