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Old 10-05-2023, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,903 posts, read 23,654,865 times
Reputation: 32401

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
This speaks of success!
the United States spent $37,400 per FTE student, which was more than double the average of OECD countries ($18,400; in constant 2021 U.S. dollars).
And we (USA) rank 'average' amoung our peers (#16 of 37)

'Average' is good enough for some

If your business needs to hire for success, just be very thankful for 'green cards' (applicants educated elsewhere).

Money / spending does not assure quality and effective EDU. The USA provides adequate data of that metric.
Once again, just criticism, not one single specific suggestion. Not one single accomplishment.

 
Old 10-05-2023, 02:44 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,157 posts, read 28,204,405 times
Reputation: 24679
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
Where are all these failed schools?
These are some high schools around Kansas City:

Ruskin High - 2 out of 10

Center Sr. High - 2 out of 10

Grandview Sr. High - 2 out of 10

Van Horn High - 2 out of 10

Northeast High - 1 out of 10

Raytown South Sr. High - 1 out of 10

Southeast High - 1 out of 10

J C Harmon High - 1 out of 10

F L Schlagle High - 1 out of 10

Washington High - 1 out of 10

Most major cities in the United States have a number of schools with poor ratings like this.

Of course, some cities have it much worse than others.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 07:27 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,191 posts, read 10,431,970 times
Reputation: 12483
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
"In the past two decades in the United States, more than 1,600 Catholic elementary and secondary schools have closed". Is that a success story?
I wouldn't consider it a failure. It was simply economics. They lost most of their low cost teachers and had to compete with public schools to hire teachers. They were not getting money from the government or local public schools, unlike the charter schools that are subsidized by local public school districts. I don't see any pubic school alternatives that have been more successful.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,895 posts, read 7,233,032 times
Reputation: 15989
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
"In the past two decades in the United States, more than 1,600 Catholic elementary and secondary schools have closed". Is that a success story?
The nuns who volunteered to teach in those schools for over 100 years simply couldn't keep it up. If the new project in the OP's link, focusing on volunteerism, lasts for 100 years then that's a success story, too.

In 100 years none of us will be around to debate whether it was worth it, if it lasts that long before giving out due to some circumstance we cannot foresee.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,903 posts, read 23,654,865 times
Reputation: 32401
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
I wouldn't consider it a failure. It was simply economics. They lost most of their low cost teachers and had to compete with public schools to hire teachers. They were not getting money from the government or local public schools, unlike the charter schools that are subsidized by local public school districts. I don't see any pubic school alternatives that have been more successful.
"low cost teachers"
couldn't compete in hiring teachers
 
Old 10-05-2023, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,126 posts, read 2,332,814 times
Reputation: 12005
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
I don't understand this thread. There are countless upon countless successful public schools. Wealthier suburb schools are doing great for example. That being said, why are we lumping so many public schools together? I know where I live most of the suburban schools are doing great and thriving. City schools aren't doing as well, but some are okay.

Where are all these failed schools?
Basically, any urban school district in a city of more than 500,000 is probably failing (except for magnet/charter/TAG/IB schools, which are basically "carve-outs" that create two schools in one building).

That's a lot of schools.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 09:17 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,741 posts, read 59,642,981 times
Reputation: 60264
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
Basically, any urban school district in a city of more than 500,000 is probably failing (except for magnet/charter/TAG/IB schools, which are basically "carve-outs" that create two schools in one building).

That's a lot of schools.

I'm glad someone mentioned the above, those are self-selecting (more or less) student cohorts, the numbers of which, for TAG at least. have stayed constant at about 20% for decades (if it's an honest TAG designation).

IB, not so much. My last couple years we were transitioning to an IB World School. There's nothing sadder than seeing a kid who can't spell Bob if you spot him the Bs try to keep up with the IB reading.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,129 posts, read 60,794,777 times
Reputation: 29998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahayana View Post
Solution to Public School Failures?
We were hit with that problem in 1990.

My Dw attended a few school board meetings and refused to allow our son to attend that school.

At that time, we knew nothing of Homeschooling. The Inter-webz was in its infancy and so it was of no help. We found a curriculum publisher with a line of curriculum that had been published and successfully used for over 150 years.

Among the courses that they were offering included one course that would get the person a K-12 teaching certificate issued by the state of Virginia. My Dw took that course and she was soon a certified teacher.

We bought each grade level as a boxed set, they were very inexpensive.

Two of my grandparents had been grammar school teachers in the 1920s. When we showed them our curriculum, they immediately recognized them as the 'readers' that were in use in grammar schools of the 1920s. They gave us their full support to Homeschool our children.

As each child finished one grade level, those textbooks were re-sealed in their original box, and the next grade-level box was unsealed. We only bought one boxed set for each grade level, and they were reused over and over for successive children.

Being career military, we moved around a lot. Settling into new areas with different school districts. In every case, with my Dw's teaching certificate, the local authorities approved what we were doing.

We quickly got connected to homeschool groups, where community resources were made available. There were chemists who volunteered to teach chemistry, etc.

There were a few years when we were foster parents. Those foster children had a lot of mental issues and therapy 3X a week. The state required that they attend public schooling. At the end of each school year, each foster child was further behind than they were at the beginning of the school year.

The act of attending public school for a year caused those children to lose the educational accomplishments that they had achieved from the previous year.

I remember one social worker, who after inspecting our home and reviewing our case file. Told me that we would never be allowed to do any of that 'harmful homeschool stuff' with foster children.

What was funny to me, was that a year later, that same social worker told us that we could begin homeschooling the foster children. It proved that while the public school system utterly failed those children, during the summer break, by spending one hour a day using the readers, each of those children was up to grade level by the end of summer.

Every year that we had those foster children, the public school system failed them. According to school district testing, those children slid further behind the longer they were exposed to public schools. And with one-hour of daily homeschooling during the summer breaks, we were able to bring them up to grade level each time.

Eventually, our children entered college when they were 16yo.

I had a very interesting talk with one college counselor, he was able to make it all make sense from his professional perspective.

After the last child began college, my Dw listed all the boxed sets on ebay and she sold them for more than what we had originally paid.

The Curriculum that we used is called Christian Light Education

https://christianlight.org/homeschool
 
Old 10-05-2023, 11:25 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,499 posts, read 57,277,907 times
Reputation: 45766
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
... "carve-outs" that create two schools in one building.

That's a lot of schools.
Some of the nations that consistantly deliver far superior K-12 test scores that USA, have (2) shifts of students daily per school building (Utiliziung the samer teachers, for morning and afternoon sessions)

1/2 the school facilities and teachers and overhead required (That's smart!)
No lunch program, as all kids are home for lunch. (That's efficient)
No buses. (Schooling is a privilege, if you want to exercise that privilege (required by law)... Then figure out how to get there, consistantly)

USA not only has pampered schools, students, teachers, and administrators; but also pampered parents.

Solution to Public School Failures?

Deal with it, as with any problem.
Identify the failure.
Fix it.

If it's social ills, deal with it socially, not scholastically.
If schools are for educating... educate!
 
Old 10-05-2023, 12:01 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,191 posts, read 10,431,970 times
Reputation: 12483
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Some of the nations that consistantly deliver far superior K-12 test scores that USA, have (2) shifts of students daily per school building (Utiliziung the samer teachers, for morning and afternoon sessions)

1/2 the school facilities and teachers and overhead required (That's smart!)
No lunch program, as all kids are home for lunch. (That's efficient)
No buses. (Schooling is a privilege, if you want to exercise that privilege (required by law)... Then figure out how to get there, consistantly)

USA not only has pampered schools, students, teachers, and administrators; but also pampered parents.

Solution to Public School Failures?

Deal with it, as with any problem.
Identify the failure.
Fix it.

If it's social ills, deal with it socially, not scholastically.
If schools are for educating... educate!
To fix something, someone has to want to fix it. The U.S. education system has been sliding for a long time. Who wants to fix it? I don't see anyone or any group leading the charge. Everyone involved thinks they are doing a great job, especially school boards and school district administration. Parents are not pushing for fixes, they are responsible for much of the blame. I've been subbing a numerous school districts since I retired. The biggest problem I see is too many people just don't care. I see students who spend 2-3 classes a day sitting in the cafeteria because they don't have subs to cover for the numerous absent teachers. I see too many students who can't read, do basic arithmetic, or legibly fill out a job application without misspelled words and poor grammar.

So who is going to identify the problem and fix it? Certainly not the politicians, when is the last time you hear a politician talk about improving education? Most of the parents don't even know there is a problem because this issue has existed for several generations.
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