Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
2,500,000 members. Thank you!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-05-2023, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,903 posts, read 23,654,865 times
Reputation: 32407

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Depends on what the goal is. If it's "absolute equality" then it doesn't matter whether they fail or not.
Who exactly is calling for "absolute equlity"? I haven't seen that here.

 
Old 10-05-2023, 03:58 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,499 posts, read 57,277,907 times
Reputation: 45766
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
How many of those million went to private schools ...very small streets around me who are being "home schooled" but really not. Unless being out riding bikes and farting around from dawn to dusk counts.
UNSCHOOLING counts!

I highly recommend it

We lived all over the world (no school schedules (or sports) tying us down)
Kids participated in 'life' every day... Math, science, reading, public speaking, volunteering (multi age groups). Lots of drama, concerts, museums (nearly every day)
  • Kid's tested every year (far above grade level (like 4-6 yrs above)
  • Kids were very engaged in community service / events ) plenty of socializing and NO age segregation... just like real life!)
  • Designed and built their own homes while Jr High age (including all permits and inspections).
  • First day of 'school' was college (age 16)
  • Kids were tutors / mentors all through 'free' college.
  • Graduated Magna, in spite of being 'Unschooled'.
20 yrs later... Kids are Very engaged in community / teaching, mentoring, 'life'.

Take a bike ride TODAY, you might learn something that can't be taught (found) in USA school.

Your neighbors per chance! Ours were very interesting and educated, talented and loved to mentor and talk and assist our 'unschooled' kids.

Typical comment from our kids after spending a day volunteering in local Public School;
"If they would listen and follow instructions, they could be outta this joint before noon!, and go do something PRODUCTIVE or educational"
 
Old 10-05-2023, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,903 posts, read 23,654,865 times
Reputation: 32407
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
UNSCHOOLING counts!

I highly recommend it

We lived all over the world (no school schedules (or sports) tying us down)
Kids participated in 'life' every day... Math, science, reading, public speaking, volunteering (multi age groups). Lots of drama, concerts, museums (nearly every day)
  • Kid's tested every year (far above grade level (like 4-6 yrs above)
  • Kids were very engaged in community service / events ) plenty of socializing and NO age segregation... just like real life!)
  • Designed and built their own homes while Jr High age (including all permits and inspections).
  • First day of 'school' was college (age 16)
  • Kids were tutors / mentors all through 'free' college.
  • Graduated Magna, in spite of being 'Unschooled'.
20 yrs later... Kids are Very engaged in community / teaching, mentoring, 'life'.

Take a bike ride TODAY, you might learn something that can't be taught (found) in USA school.

Your neighbors per chance! Ours were very interesting and educated, talented and loved to mentor and talk and assist our 'unschooled' kids.

Typical comment from our kids after spending a day volunteering in local Public School;
"If they would listen and follow instructions, they could be outta this joint before noon!, and go do something PRODUCTIVE or educational"
yeah
 
Old 10-05-2023, 04:14 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,191 posts, read 10,431,970 times
Reputation: 12483
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The better question is - Why should we try to fix it at all?

Haven’t the last 60 years proven conclusively that some people are unable to be successful in academic pursuits no matter what is tried to help them?

Some people will always have low test scores, and cannot possibly be college material.

We need to stop being irrational and stop having unrealistic expectations about this.

There will always be economic class differences in the United States and we will always have people who are much better suited for menial jobs and manual labor than they are for intellectual pursuits. Life is like that.
We should try to fix it because it is in the nation's best interest to maximize the potential of every American. This does not mean providing an education to prepare all or most students for college. Out education system has made a huge mistake deciding that all students should take algebra, geometry, and biology. We have students being taught how to graph equations when they can't do simple arithmetic. Could we provide high school science classes that are more practical to the real world than learning about eukaryotic cell structures in a high school biology class.

My idea of fixing the education system is simply providing the best education for each individual student so they are not wasting four years of their life where they are not maximizing their potential no matter how high or low that potential is.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 04:16 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,191 posts, read 10,431,970 times
Reputation: 12483
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
UNSCHOOLING counts!

I highly recommend it

We lived all over the world (no school schedules (or sports) tying us down)
Kids participated in 'life' every day... Math, science, reading, public speaking, volunteering (multi age groups). Lots of drama, concerts, museums (nearly every day)
  • Kid's tested every year (far above grade level (like 4-6 yrs above)
  • Kids were very engaged in community service / events ) plenty of socializing and NO age segregation... just like real life!)
  • Designed and built their own homes while Jr High age (including all permits and inspections).
  • First day of 'school' was college (age 16)
  • Kids were tutors / mentors all through 'free' college.
  • Graduated Magna, in spite of being 'Unschooled'.
20 yrs later... Kids are Very engaged in community / teaching, mentoring, 'life'.

Take a bike ride TODAY, you might learn something that can't be taught (found) in USA school.

Your neighbors per chance! Ours were very interesting and educated, talented and loved to mentor and talk and assist our 'unschooled' kids.

Typical comment from our kids after spending a day volunteering in local Public School;
"If they would listen and follow instructions, they could be outta this joint before noon!, and go do something PRODUCTIVE or educational"
Why even bring this up? It doesn't scale across our society.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 04:49 PM
 
12,526 posts, read 8,744,919 times
Reputation: 34281
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
No one will fix it as no one in government thinks there is a problem.
If the kids are failing it's because of anything and everything except the curriculum.
Food, money, the Civil War, etc.

So parents who see this pull their kids and put them in private/charter schools.
Over 1 million kids never came back to public schools. That should have been a strong message to the Dept of Education but it seemed to have fallen on deaf ears.
The STEM agencies in government do recognize the problem. DoD has one of the biggest databases of high school performance going back decades in the ASVAB. As well as recruit training. We were encouraged to volunteer in the schools and they even started providing paid time to do it. One of my specific additional duties was education outreach. I think even within the "feel good" agencies, they acknowledge the problem quietly but can't bring themselves to admit it openly because it isn't politically correct.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The better question is - Why should we try to fix it at all?

Haven’t the last 60 years proven conclusively that some people are unable to be successful in academic pursuits no matter what is tried to help them?

Some people will always have low test scores, and cannot possibly be college material.

We need to stop being irrational and stop having unrealistic expectations about this.

There will always be economic class differences in the United States and we will always have people who are much better suited for menial jobs and manual labor than they are for intellectual pursuits. Life is like that.
Acknowledging those differences and admitting them is one of the first and biggest steps toward fixing the problems in education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
We should try to fix it because it is in the nation's best interest to maximize the potential of every American. This does not mean providing an education to prepare all or most students for college. Out education system has made a huge mistake deciding that all students should take algebra, geometry, and biology. We have students being taught how to graph equations when they can't do simple arithmetic. Could we provide high school science classes that are more practical to the real world than learning about eukaryotic cell structures in a high school biology class.

My idea of fixing the education system is simply providing the best education for each individual student so they are not wasting four years of their life where they are not maximizing their potential no matter how high or low that potential is.
Agree. That's one of the big steps. Bring vocational tracks back into high school and stop trying to put everyone on a college path.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 05:18 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,741 posts, read 59,642,981 times
Reputation: 60264
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
The STEM agencies in government do recognize the problem. DoD has one of the biggest databases of high school performance going back decades in the ASVAB. As well as recruit training. We were encouraged to volunteer in the schools and they even started providing paid time to do it. One of my specific additional duties was education outreach. I think even within the "feel good" agencies, they acknowledge the problem quietly but can't bring themselves to admit it openly because it isn't politically correct.*


Acknowledging those differences and admitting them is one of the first and biggest steps toward fixing the problems in education.



Agree. That's one of the big steps. Bring vocational tracks back into high school and stop trying to put everyone on a college path.
And that's where you'll get massive pushback for DEI reasons, The default assertion will be that minority students and girls will be tracked automatically to vocational.

Yet another story:
My oldest daughter turns 40 this year. When she entered 9th Grade, so 1996, her Guidance Counselor met with her and asked what she wanted to do. I don't remember exactly what she said but it was something along the line of going to college for Art. The GC then responded that due to where she lived and her family background (at that point I had already served two terms as a local elected official although I was taking a break) and was at the beginning of my second decade teaching) she would do better to maybe look at Cosmetology or Nursing Assistant.

When I heard that I'm sure the GC felt like Big Jim Walker being cut in about a hundred places and shot in a couple more after I personally responded to him.

Now does that happen everywhere? No, Southern Maryland is, and continues to be, somewhat backward, but there's enough history out there that the parents' default will be that it will happen to their kids.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 05:27 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,262 posts, read 16,898,938 times
Reputation: 33956
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Who exactly is calling for "absolute equlity"? I haven't seen that here.
Well you would have to go read what think tanks think about education and the end goal.
Their thinking usually ends up in new curriculum. Common Core being one.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 06:09 PM
 
7,063 posts, read 3,373,881 times
Reputation: 13513
Quote:
Originally Posted by citylove101 View Post
Thanks for asking that question. Because most parents don’t feel that their schools are failing.
Feelings are irrelevant.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 06:17 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,741 posts, read 59,642,981 times
Reputation: 60264
How many passenger airliners crashed today? How many landed safely? Which would be a lead story on the 6 o'clock news?

The same with schools, the bad/failing ones are in the news. The successful just keeping doing their thing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top