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Old 10-14-2023, 12:13 PM
 
Location: S-E Michigan
4,250 posts, read 5,881,315 times
Reputation: 10765

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
When 70% of the students who take the American College Test have no intention of actually going to college, the scores are going to drop, precipitously.

It is worth noting that institutions of higher learning started dropping the testing requirement at the same time that more states were requiring that every student take it. The scores were no longer as useful as before when determining admissions.
So true. Many High Schools require ALL students to take the exam, which results in answer sheets with the ovals colored in to create patterns or words.
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Old 10-14-2023, 12:24 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,572 posts, read 17,165,706 times
Reputation: 34116
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
When 70% of the students who take the American College Test have no intention of actually going to college, the scores are going to drop, precipitously.

It is worth noting that institutions of higher learning started dropping the testing requirement at the same time that more states were requiring that every student take it. The scores were no longer as useful as before when determining admissions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
So true. Many High Schools require ALL students to take the exam, which results in answer sheets with the ovals colored in to create patterns or words.
But that isn't something new.

My son graduated HS in 2009 and they were doing that back then...all students took the tests.
By then NCLB was in place and all students were on a college track.
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Old 10-14-2023, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,061 posts, read 23,742,438 times
Reputation: 32500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
But that isn't something new.

My son graduated HS in 2009 and they were doing that back then...all students took the tests.
By then NCLB was in place and all students were on a college track.
No, all students in this country are not on a college track.

For example, at the high school where I lost taught -- in Fairfax County Public Schools in Virginia -- the eleventh largest school district in the nation here's the program offerings in non-college track today in 2023:

Automotive
Chinese
Construction
Cosmetology
Criminal Justice
Culinary
Cyber/IT
Electrical
Global STEM Challenges Program
HVAC
Teachers for Tomorrow
Veterinary Science

Out of 30 high schools in the county, six have these "Academy" programs, and students from other high schools can get transportation to the Academy schools.

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/high/...lized-programs
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Old 10-14-2023, 02:22 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,572 posts, read 17,165,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No, all students in this country are not on a college track.

For example, at the high school where I lost taught -- in Fairfax County Public Schools in Virginia -- the eleventh largest school district in the nation here's the program offerings in non-college track today in 2023:

Automotive
Chinese
Construction
Cosmetology
Criminal Justice
Culinary
Cyber/IT
Electrical
Global STEM Challenges Program
HVAC
Teachers for Tomorrow
Veterinary Science

Out of 30 high schools in the county, six have these "Academy" programs, and students from other high schools can get transportation to the Academy schools.

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/high/...lized-programs
The vocational programs were removed and then came back since 2009.
They are now called CTE usually taught by professionals that obtained a teaching cert.

Over 14 years there have been a few new programs since NCLB

Nevertheless, all the kids took the standardized tests so this isn't something new to affect the declining scores.
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Old 10-14-2023, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,061 posts, read 23,742,438 times
Reputation: 32500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
The vocational programs were removed and then came back since 2009.
They are now called CTE usually taught by professionals that obtained a teaching cert.

Over 14 years there have been a few new programs since NCLB

Nevertheless, all the kids took the standardized tests so this isn't something new to affect the declining scores.
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the lie that all students in this country are on a college track. That is said repeatedly on this forum.
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Old 10-14-2023, 02:33 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,572 posts, read 17,165,706 times
Reputation: 34116
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the lie that all students in this country are on a college track. That is said repeatedly on this forum.
I wrote "was" and "were"....you know...past tense.
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Old 10-14-2023, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,061 posts, read 23,742,438 times
Reputation: 32500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
I wrote "was" and "were"....you know...past tense.
I'm talking about the consistent claims in this forum that all American students on a college track.
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:40 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,537 posts, read 57,405,072 times
Reputation: 45882
ACT Scores...

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'm talking about the consistent claims in this forum that all American students on a college track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
So true. Many High Schools require ALL students to take the exam, which results in answer sheets with the ovals colored in to create patterns or words.
This^^^^
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Old 10-15-2023, 08:40 AM
 
12,566 posts, read 8,790,450 times
Reputation: 34364
I looked up our local high school's current offerings. It's a bit disengenious to call their programs CTE, because most of the list were only a single, survey course, not a program of study. The only ones that you could call a complete program of study were the dual enrollment courses with the local CC, so the high school isn't really offering them, just allowing students to take them, and cosmetology. What was interesting is they included the single course in personal finance as a CTE program. As well as JROTC.

And of course, the obligatory STEM "program" as a career. Wow. Every possible technical career wrapped into a single course. This is from the course syllabus:

Students will:

(1) have an increased awareness of STEM and related careers;
(2) gain an awareness of the education necessary to participate in those careers; and/or (3) develop
their knowledge of related content and skills (including critical thinking skills) needed for entering the
STEM workforce.


The point is, how much substance is within school CTE programs?
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Old 10-15-2023, 09:36 AM
 
1,403 posts, read 1,059,201 times
Reputation: 2932
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I looked up our local high school's current offerings. It's a bit disengenious to call their programs CTE, because most of the list were only a single, survey course, not a program of study. The only ones that you could call a complete program of study were the dual enrollment courses with the local CC, so the high school isn't really offering them, just allowing students to take them, and cosmetology. What was interesting is they included the single course in personal finance as a CTE program. As well as JROTC.

And of course, the obligatory STEM "program" as a career. Wow. Every possible technical career wrapped into a single course. This is from the course syllabus:

Students will:

(1) have an increased awareness of STEM and related careers;
(2) gain an awareness of the education necessary to participate in those careers; and/or (3) develop
their knowledge of related content and skills (including critical thinking skills) needed for entering the
STEM workforce.


The point is, how much substance is within school CTE programs?
The two districts in CO that I worked in have some pretty comprehensive CTE programs that have included certifications in Welding, automotive, CNA, etc. Maybe you local school just stinks.
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