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Old 10-23-2023, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Concord, CA
7,116 posts, read 9,178,668 times
Reputation: 25310

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SAT Data Shows the Deep Inequality at the Heart of American Education

The differences in how rich and poor children are educated, both in and out of school, start very early.

free link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...smid=url-share

"The disparity highlights the inequality at the heart of American education: Starting very early, children from rich and poor families receive vastly different educations, in and out of school, driven by differences in the amount of money and time their parents are able to invest. And in the last five decades, as the country has become more unequal by income, the gap in children’s academic achievement, as measured by test scores throughout schooling, has widened."
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Old 10-23-2023, 09:18 AM
 
19,452 posts, read 17,674,497 times
Reputation: 17005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
SAT Data Shows the Deep Inequality at the Heart of American Education

The differences in how rich and poor children are educated, both in and out of school, start very early.

free link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...smid=url-share

"The disparity highlights the inequality at the heart of American education: Starting very early, children from rich and poor families receive vastly different educations, in and out of school, driven by differences in the amount of money and time their parents are able to invest. And in the last five decades, as the country has become more unequal by income, the gap in children’s academic achievement, as measured by test scores throughout schooling, has widened."

Everyone here should at navigate through the link above and scroll down to the graphic regarding parental income and kids test scores.


People should calm down, read the data and understand per the test score distributions vs. income the NYT could substitute Parental educational attainment, Parental IQ, Kids IQ, Parental educational expectations for children and a bunch of other things and the results would be the same.



It is time for people to be honest with themselves and acknowledge (don't trust me trust the data)...................across the first world these features track each other in direct and quite linear fashion and have at least since physiologists, sociologist and economists began studying these things.

___________


Per your implication about income distributions....................educational pros love to point out we now test a greater percentage of kids per grade than ever IOW participation rates have never been higher. With that aggregated scores will fall.
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Old 10-23-2023, 01:12 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,360 posts, read 16,479,225 times
Reputation: 29512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
SAT Data Shows the Deep Inequality at the Heart of American Education

The differences in how rich and poor children are educated, both in and out of school, start very early.

free link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...smid=url-share

"The disparity highlights the inequality at the heart of American education: Starting very early, children from rich and poor families receive vastly different educations, in and out of school, driven by differences in the amount of money and time their parents are able to invest. And in the last five decades, as the country has become more unequal by income, the gap in children’s academic achievement, as measured by test scores throughout schooling, has widened."
It's not up to the "system" to equalize results or dumb society down to its lowest possible common denominator. Society cannot reinvent thousands of years of history and culture. Not all parents or families value education equally or can create a home environment conducive to study.

Society cannot raise all children equally. One of my law colleagues spent two years as a teacher in an inner-city school. During this stint a 6'8" student earing an ankle bracelet nearly broke his jaw until that "student" was restrained by some of his peers.
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Old 10-23-2023, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,096 posts, read 23,758,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
It's not up to the "system" to equalize results or dumb society down to its lowest possible common denominator. Society cannot reinvent thousands of years of history and culture. Not all parents or families value education equally or can create a home environment conducive to study.

Society cannot raise all children equally. One of my law colleagues spent two years as a teacher in an inner-city school. During this stint a 6'8" student earing an ankle bracelet nearly broke his jaw until that "student" was restrained by some of his peers.
It is up to the system to treat all children equitably. The rest of you can send your children to a private school at your expense.
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Old 10-23-2023, 02:36 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,360 posts, read 16,479,225 times
Reputation: 29512
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
It is up to the system to treat all children equitably. The rest of you can send your children to a private school at your expense.
What about my views or suggestions are "inequitable?"
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Old 10-23-2023, 03:52 PM
 
16,982 posts, read 21,591,499 times
Reputation: 29052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
SAT Data Shows the Deep Inequality at the Heart of American Education

The differences in how rich and poor children are educated, both in and out of school, start very early.

free link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...smid=url-share

"The disparity highlights the inequality at the heart of American education: Starting very early, children from rich and poor families receive vastly different educations, in and out of school, driven by differences in the amount of money and time their parents are able to invest. And in the last five decades, as the country has become more unequal by income, the gap in children’s academic achievement, as measured by test scores throughout schooling, has widened."
Sorry there are high achievers from the ghetto and slackers from the suburbs so lets not get too excited about a chart.

"World needs ditch diggers too"............Honorable Judge Smails


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiRGRvE_Wqg
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Old 10-23-2023, 04:13 PM
 
12,570 posts, read 8,797,942 times
Reputation: 34364
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Everyone here should at navigate through the link above and scroll down to the graphic regarding parental income and kids test scores.


People should calm down, read the data and understand per the test score distributions vs. income the NYT could substitute Parental educational attainment, Parental IQ, Kids IQ, Parental educational expectations for children and a bunch of other things and the results would be the same.



It is time for people to be honest with themselves and acknowledge (don't trust me trust the data)...................across the first world these features track each other in direct and quite linear fashion and have at least since physiologists, sociologist and economists began studying these things.

___________


Per your implication about income distributions....................educational pros love to point out we now test a greater percentage of kids per grade than ever IOW participation rates have never been higher. With that aggregated scores will fall.
Good comments. Exactly my thoughts on seeing the charts in that article. Unfortunately, I don't think many are willing to be honest with themselves on what the data says.
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Old 10-23-2023, 04:17 PM
 
12,570 posts, read 8,797,942 times
Reputation: 34364
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
It is up to the system to treat all children equitably. The rest of you can send your children to a private school at your expense.
So we're all on the same page, what do you mean by "equitably?" Do you mean:

a. Hold all children to the same high standards and provide each one the same opportunity, with the outcome up to what they put in?

or

b. Provide different education standards and opportunity to each child to create the same outcome for everyone regardless of what they put in?
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Old 10-23-2023, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,096 posts, read 23,758,795 times
Reputation: 32514
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
So we're all on the same page, what do you mean by "equitably?" Do you mean:

a. Hold all children to the same high standards and provide each one the same opportunity, with the outcome up to what they put in?

or

b. Provide different education standards and opportunity to each child to create the same outcome for everyone regardless of what they put in?
I'll just put it this way:

Do you think that every patient in a doctor's practice needs to receive identical treatment? Or is treatment tailored -- to some degree -- to the individual patient?

Because if that's your belief, there should be no gifted programs. The principle (if there is one) works in both directions.
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Old 10-23-2023, 09:50 PM
 
12,570 posts, read 8,797,942 times
Reputation: 34364
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'll just put it this way:

Do you think that every patient in a doctor's practice needs to receive identical treatment? Or is treatment tailored -- to some degree -- to the individual patient?

Because if that's your belief, there should be no gifted programs. The principle (if there is one) works in both directions.
Not even close to a good analogy and not at all what I'm talking about. But to use your analogy, do you expect different patients to have the same outcomes?

Nor am I talking about programs even though you seem to want to categorize everything into an either/or between two extremes. But again, to play to your analogy, yes, I'd give up gifted programs to teach to the same high standards and measure against those standards.

But then I've never argued against different programs for different skills. To once again use your medical analogy, I'm all for academic triage. I've always been a proponent of having college bound and Vo-Tech bound programs because I know that every kid is different. What I am against is lowering standards so everyone can get a diploma; I'm against schools pushing college for everyone when for so many students that's the wrong, costly, direction. I'd like to be able to trust that a high school diploma means a graduate has a certain level of knowledge and skills -- I can't trust today that every high school graduate has those skills because of policies like "no failing grades."
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