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Old 10-12-2023, 10:10 AM
 
7,026 posts, read 3,363,704 times
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So Sad. And, when the only tool you have is a hammer, you treat every problem as an excuse to demand higher teacher compensation.




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Old 10-12-2023, 10:31 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,495 posts, read 57,246,361 times
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Interesting anecdotal 'antidote' for that...

USA friends moved to Singapore specifically so their kids could get a good primary PUBLIC education.

They returned to USA for college, and all their kids aced the ACT and SAT and got free rides to very good (at the time) USA universities. They all now have very desirable international careers (and families).

Not for everyone, but it works for some.
.
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Old 10-12-2023, 10:38 AM
 
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Some additional info. Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/12054...ns-30-year-low

Of students who were tested, only 21% met benchmarks for success in college-level classes in all subjects.

Scores have been falling for years, but of course they will blame it all on COVID, the all purpose Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card.

Since even colleges at the low end of the scale cut off around 18, this means that almost half of all students are performing below the minimum for low end colleges. Which is not unexpected but flies against the everyone can go to college mantra driving so much of education.

But I also think the general drop in the average means even the better students are doing as well as they are capable of -- also supporting the point that schools are spending so much effort on the bottom 20% that they are not providing the top half with the education they need and are entitled to. Would love to see the shape of the distribution and variance changes over the years.
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Old 10-12-2023, 11:12 AM
 
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Can anyone find a private vs. public school trend for SAT and ACT scores that covers recent years? I'd like to see if the decline is across the board, or mostly in public schools.
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Old 10-12-2023, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
10,330 posts, read 7,401,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wac_432 View Post
Can anyone find a private vs. public school trend for SAT and ACT scores that covers recent years? I'd like to see if the decline is across the board, or mostly in public schools.
I found an article showing the average SAT at private schools in 2016, the last year to use the 2400 maximum score, was 1645 in independent privates and 1594 in religious privates. If we average them together that's about 1620 out of 2400, or .675. https://capenetwork.org/sat-scores-d...ype-of-school/

For 2023-2024, the average private school SAT score is 1229 out of 1600, or .768. https://www.privateschoolreview.com/.../national-data

So, the trend looks to be actually improving for privates if these figures are correct.
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Old 10-12-2023, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,889 posts, read 23,631,391 times
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Or

https://www.forbes.com/sites/akilbel...h=1500a4e32c0e
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Old 10-12-2023, 12:20 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,495 posts, read 57,246,361 times
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Seems reasonable to think that fewer participants (at the same academic level) would RAISE the average, because only those seeking higher ed, would be testing.

Fewer wanna bees (Maybe I'll take the test to see if I'm eligible)

I would expect the privates to be trending higher, They must improve to retain and attact new staff and students.

Home school stats would be good to see as well. ($ spent on individual education vs ACT / SAT outcome)

BTW: Marketplace (NPR) is planning to do a series on 'The Value of College' next week.
Freakonomics has some interesting programs on similar topics, Last week was one on Family / Social effects on the success of students.
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Old 10-12-2023, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
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Some states require all juniors to take the ACT. My grandson had someone brag about just filling in the bubbles to get it done
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Old 10-12-2023, 01:03 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,721 posts, read 59,606,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Some additional info. Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/12054...ns-30-year-low

Of students who were tested, only 21% met benchmarks for success in college-level classes in all subjects.

Scores have been falling for years, but of course they will blame it all on COVID, the all purpose Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card.

Since even colleges at the low end of the scale cut off around 18, this means that almost half of all students are performing below the minimum for low end colleges. Which is not unexpected but flies against the everyone can go to college mantra driving so much of education.

But I also think the general drop in the average means even the better students are doing as well as they are capable of -- also supporting the point that schools are spending so much effort on the bottom 20% that they are not providing the top half with the education they need and are entitled to. Would love to see the shape of the distribution and variance changes over the years.
Related to what I bolded, there are now many school systems that mandate that every student enrolled take the ACT/SAT/PSAT and have those tests administered during a regular school day instead of a Saturday.

You haven't lived until you get to administer the PSAT to a group of self-contained SPED students.

What do you think their scores, which are rolled into the aggregate, were like?

While the Educocrats (and that includes the College Board which is a strong advocate of universal SAT/PSAT/AP testing) will deny it, opening up the testing pool to everyone will inevitably lead to lower scores. I had this argument thirty years ago with one of our migrant Superintendents. He, of course, denied that would happen, something about "raising the bar". I told him it was magical thinking. But what did I know? He spent two whole years in the classroom teaching before going into Administration.
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Old 10-12-2023, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,889 posts, read 23,631,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Related to what I bolded, there are now many school systems that mandate that every student enrolled take the ACT/SAT/PSAT and have those tests administered during a regular school day instead of a Saturday.

You haven't lived until you get to administer the PSAT to a group of self-contained SPED students.

What do you think their scores, which are rolled into the aggregate, were like?

While the Educocrats (and that includes the College Board which is a strong advocate of universal SAT/PSAT/AP testing) will deny it, opening up the testing pool to everyone will inevitably lead to lower scores. I had this argument thirty years ago with one of our migrant Superintendents. He, of course, denied that would happen, something about "raising the bar". I told him it was magical thinking. But what did I know? He spent two whole years in the classroom teaching before going into Administration.
Very good point from a balanced poster.
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