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Old 10-15-2023, 02:28 PM
 
12,521 posts, read 8,740,507 times
Reputation: 34276

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Those kid do not go to DoD schools. They go to the schools in the community where they live.

Currently working in one of those school systems and have many other times over my career. That data exists - they do better on testing, particularly minority students. It is a combination of having a parent who the type of person who self-selects to be in the military, having a primary culture that still promotes meritocracy, and the list I gave in the post above. By the way, for military families their military culture is generally primary to their other cultural identities, including race. Gender is the only cultural identity that supersedes military identity, and even then gender is not as impactful as it is for non-military people.
That's what I was trying to get at. Not just compare DoD schools, but DoD students within DoD schools and public schools. Non of the bases I was stationed at had on base schools as best I can recall. Trying to remember if Right-Pitiful (Wright Patterson for everyone else) did or not; been too long. I never lived in on base housing except TDY. Just too little of it at the places I was stationed.

BTW, one issue now being seen by some of my friends is contracted housing. Under the contract with the housing vendor, if there are not enough military personnel to fill vacant units, they can lease those units to the general public. I know some friends that were starting to see more problems in the housing areas because of the non-military families living in them.

I was Air Force for my military career while my youngest is Army so there are cultural differences just between services. Just as a side bar note, years ago, there was a major performance difference between school districts in Colorado Springs based on high Air Force population vs high Army population vs the general population. There's been so much growth happen in the last 20 years it may have washed out the differences, but if the data is there from the 80s/90s, it would be an interesting comparison between population groups with distinct cultures.
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Old 10-15-2023, 03:28 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 15,966,266 times
Reputation: 28262
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
as always, and as expected... (this is the C-D EDUCATION forum)

100 excuses + "You CAN'T do THAT!!!"
"We've done that 100 times, It fails every time..."

No recognition of... "Oh yes, that's a great idea that could be implemented or improved upon"

There is NO improving USA EDU. It is a sacred institution, and we all know what happens to those.

Someday it will be totally empty, but never abandoned.
It will still be THE BEST (Tho empty and irrelevant)

Onward we march, off the cliff.

(Knowing several DoDD employees... they have a saying... "If only I had known, I would have bailed on the Public EDU System years ago.")

But.
That will never work!
I’ve taught in DoDDS, DODEA, and regular public schools. I am not what changed from school to school but my students’ test scores sure did. I know you refuse to believe this, but how good or awful a school performs is primarily a result of the students (and their parents) that attend the school. Now, I will grant you there are difference in what those teachers do with the students they are given, some managing to practically pull off magic and some destroying what should have been an easily educated kid, but that is harder to evaluate than just looking at raw scores so it gets ignored or, as you tend to do, dismissed. Some of the best, most committed teachers I met were teaching at “failing” schools. Some of the laziest, most arrogant teachers I met were at “the best” schools.

Military kids, regardless of race, for the most part are practically hard wired to be successfully educated, other than being a tad more hyper than their civilian counterparts.
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Old 10-15-2023, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,899 posts, read 23,645,912 times
Reputation: 32389
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
I wouldn’t have been surprised at all if you followed the sup’s order even if it broke policy. You know, “contract law” and all that.
"contract law" would have resulted in a lawsuit against the school system...and me. I knew the policies after being in the school system for 15 years even if the new assistant super didn't.
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Old 10-15-2023, 04:08 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,740 posts, read 59,631,382 times
Reputation: 60258
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
as always, and as expected... (this is the C-D EDUCATION forum)

100 excuses + "You CAN'T do THAT!!!"
"We've done that 100 times, It fails every time..."

No recognition of... "Oh yes, that's a great idea that could be implemented or improved upon"

There is NO improving USA EDU. It is a sacred institution, and we all know what happens to those.

Someday it will be totally empty, but never abandoned.
It will still be THE BEST (Tho empty and irrelevant)

Onward we march, off the cliff.

(Knowing several DoDD employees... they have a saying... "If only I had known, I would have bailed on the Public EDU System years ago.")

But.
That will never work!
Who exactly has done that in this thread, or really ever. You just don't like hearing truths based in reality that don't fit into your particular narrative.

So, what's your solution?

Last edited by North Beach Person; 10-15-2023 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 10-15-2023, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
767 posts, read 445,777 times
Reputation: 1341
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
"contract law" would have resulted in a lawsuit against the school system...and me. I knew the policies after being in the school system for 15 years even if the new assistant super didn't.
Wouldn’t be the first time in your career that you blindly followed orders from a sup, according to you, at least, anyway….
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Old 10-15-2023, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
767 posts, read 445,777 times
Reputation: 1341
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Who exactly has done that in this thread, or really ever. You just don't like hearing truths based in reality that don't fit into your particular narrative.

So, what's your solution?
My solution is to sunset (that’s putting it nicely) the failure of an education system incrementally (so it wouldn’t be impossible) and replacing it entirely rather than continually trying to fix it like a 1993 BMW where everything is broken and it’s pretty much a total loss. When is 8 engine replacements and 4 gearbox/transmission swaps really enough before you admit that the thing isn’t worth fixing? When do you and Phetaroi ever admit that the current system is severely flawed?

You and phetaroi just don’t like it because if it had been implemented during your tenure, you’d have a loss of employment and benefits, which makes sense because you want to protect the status quo educational system at all costs. I find it funny because both of you are retired and have no further duty to defend or not speak badly of your employer yet you continue for whatever reason.

Last edited by StarryKnight1; 10-15-2023 at 05:51 PM..
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,899 posts, read 23,645,912 times
Reputation: 32389
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
Wouldn’t be the first time in your career that you blindly followed orders from a sup, according to you, at least, anyway….
No, not blindly following order from a sup...fulfilling my contract.
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,899 posts, read 23,645,912 times
Reputation: 32389
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
My solution is to sunset (that’s putting it nicely) the failure of an education system incrementally (so it wouldn’t be impossible) and replacing it entirely rather than continually trying to fix it like a 1993 BMW where everything is broken and it’s pretty much a total loss. When is 8 engine replacements and 4 gearbox/transmission swaps really enough before you admit that the thing isn’t worth fixing? When do you and Phetaroi ever admit that the current system is severely flawed?

You and phetaroi just don’t like it because if it had been implemented during your tenure, you’d have a loss of employment and benefits, which makes sense because you want to protect the status quo educational system at all costs. I find it funny because both of you are retired and have no further duty to defend or not speak badly of your employer yet you continue for whatever reason.
No, we respect American traditions. We aren't wild "status quo destroyers". We don't destroy. We build.
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:11 PM
 
4,340 posts, read 4,174,604 times
Reputation: 5756
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
as always, and as expected... (this is the C-D EDUCATION forum)

100 excuses + "You CAN'T do THAT!!!"
"We've done that 100 times, It fails every time..."

No recognition of... "Oh yes, that's a great idea that could be implemented or improved upon"

There is NO improving USA EDU. It is a sacred institution, and we all know what happens to those.

Someday it will be totally empty, but never abandoned.
It will still be THE BEST (Tho empty and irrelevant)

Onward we march, off the cliff.

(Knowing several DoDD employees... they have a saying... "If only I had known, I would have bailed on the Public EDU System years ago.")

But.
That will never work!
What would you do to solve the problem of significant numbers of children who arrive in formal education at age 5 with the developmental profile of a 2 1/2-year-old in verbal and motor skills and who are not able to take care of their toilet needs?

What have you seen done in your varied experience that would help schools deal with that situation? What solutions have you seen in areas of extreme poverty and family dysfunction that would be applicable in such areas in the United States? How can schools overcome the obstacles of neglect and abuse by the adults responsible for the students' upbringing? How would you solve the challenges of providing schooling when the property tax base collapses and school districts have less than the minimum needed to provide an adequate education?

In my opinion, the problems with America's public schools were not created by, nor can they be solved by the public schools. Perhaps trying to build in social services at schools was the wrong idea and inadvertently created the expectation that schools could solve social problems.

I know that after my old school began housing a behavioral health clinic, all the BD kids in the district were transferred there and things really did swing a little out of control. I saw the list of students that one of their counselors left in the copy room one time and it was well over a hundred students receiving services. This was out of an enrollment of about 700. Who knows whether or not all those students benefited from the services they received, but the provider definitely benefited.
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:13 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,740 posts, read 59,631,382 times
Reputation: 60258
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
My solution is to sunset (that’s putting it nicely) the failure of an education system incrementally (so it wouldn’t be impossible) and replacing it entirely rather than continually trying to fix it like a 1993 BMW where everything is broken and it’s pretty much a total loss. When is 8 engine replacements and 4 gearbox/transmission swaps really enough before you admit that the thing isn’t worth fixing? When do you and Phetaroi ever admit that the current system is severely flawed?

You and phetaroi just don’t like it because if it had been implemented during your tenure, you’d have a loss of employment and benefits, which makes sense because you want to protect the status quo educational system at all costs. I find it funny because both of you are retired and have no further duty to defend or not speak badly of your employer yet you continue for whatever reason.
What's that saying from H.L. Mencken? Oh I remember, For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong.

It's real easy to say, about anything, "tear it all down". Then what do you replace it with? That's where none of you really have an answer.

Charter schools? Public schools that are really private schools getting taxpayer funds.

What any of your solutions would do is go back to the 18th/19th Century model, only the wealthy get any education (that includes trades) while the rest just kind of twist in the wind. Except maybe the ones you get into indentured servitude.

What every single one of you never acknowledge is that the US is the only country that is committed to having everybody go to school. That means everybody, the fit and the unfit, the lame, the blind and the deficient. Everybody.

Are there issues? Of course there are. The biggest one is the parents who demand that the schools tell their kids they're going to college. In my former system you couldn't really even mention the Vo-Tech program except for Cosmetology.

I have related how I was "counseled" after telling more than one kid about a well paying job (the railroad was one) someone with only a high school diploma could get. Or telling another kid to go to Vo-Tech for a trade he wanted to do. His custodial grandmother wouldn't go for that so the kid ended up paying to go to trade school for the trade after he graduated.
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