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Old 10-15-2023, 06:16 PM
 
4,339 posts, read 4,172,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryKnight1 View Post
My solution is to sunset (that’s putting it nicely) the failure of an education system incrementally (so it wouldn’t be impossible) and replacing it entirely rather than continually trying to fix it like a 1993 BMW where everything is broken and it’s pretty much a total loss. When is 8 engine replacements and 4 gearbox/transmission swaps really enough before you admit that the thing isn’t worth fixing? When do you and Phetaroi ever admit that the current system is severely flawed?

You and phetaroi just don’t like it because if it had been implemented during your tenure, you’d have a loss of employment and benefits, which makes sense because you want to protect the status quo educational system at all costs. I find it funny because both of you are retired and have no further duty to defend or not speak badly of your employer yet you continue for whatever reason.
How would you replace the failed education system in cities where the tax base has collapsed? I would not have lost my job because there were almost no applicants for positions in our district.

Changing the status quo only makes sense if you have something better in mind with a realistic strategy for achieving effective change.
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Old 10-15-2023, 09:31 PM
 
4,133 posts, read 4,368,512 times
Reputation: 10002
Military education would naturally be better because of some of the points already mentioned but mostly because they do what the military does best secure the environment for learning. They don't tolerate distracting behaviors from students.

Old post still pertinent.



May 27, 2012
It has never really been about the children. Historically, the push for public education was by leadership who wanted competent workers in the Industrial Revolution. Read John Taylor Gatto, former NY state teacher of the year regarding education reform.

Problem is Education has become an 'industry' itself and both major factions in education: politicians and teachers unions / educational administrators have interests in opposition to creating a better environment for the student. Politicians are looking at (policy) capital budgets for schools and 'programs' they can claim for political capital and as avenues to enrich themselves and cronies via construction and services contracts etc...

Teachers Union administrators are working to grow a bureaucracy to continue expanding teacher rolls and also programs to claim for political capital and add bureaucracy to validate 'administrators' and the non teaching staff.

A system of reform in public education should first establish the environment for learning. This is analogous to securing a perimeter in the military. This would mean simply removing those who are not there to learn. Get them OUT of the public schools. This daycare function has to go. Establish a designated place for the willful slaves to be confined in a 'hang out' location- perhaps a vacated school or former post office property. The consequences of this action should be the individual signs away their voting privileges in society until they achieve a GED.

This would be a major corrective action toward bad government, which caters to creating dependency voting blocs without demanding consequences for poor decisions and actions. This may also provide an incentive then for those who would like to participate in society by then reorienting themselves to the education process. Get a GED to be able to vote. Put the onus on the student.

That would be my suggestion for tieback to the whole individual education process.

Likewise technology will enable those with a learning spirit to do so on their own. Tools such as:
Khan Academy
MIT Online
Stanford Online
are there already for those with a healthy natural curiosity.


I foresee a continuing bifurcation along these lines of educational mindset - those who want to, will find a way and the rest will condemn themselves to serfdom groveling to the nanny state for more when they contribute little to nothing.

Some Education related sayings:
"Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis" which is scripted in Latin. The English translation means "Education is the most effective form of rebellion". The moral of Thorin's quote is that much more can be accomplished with a book rather than a bat. To truly make a difference, you need not only angst, but also a firm foundation on what makes the system what it is. Past revolutionaries (Che, King Jr, Gandhi....) all knew how to use the system to their advantage and bring about change. Society loves stupid people because they are so easy to control. To truly make a difference organize with the tools that truly bring about change: Education and Unity. The sheep (people in general) are force fed crap everyday via the media. Unfortunately, they take it all in with their mouths open wide. The uneducated cannot tell the difference between truth and lie, instead they tend to believe everything that is broadcasted without even questioning it. Everyday the system is unjust and unfair. Without education, and unity, this massive corporate lobbied tax hijacked machine can never be re-tooled. It is up to YOU to make the changes needed to improve YOUR society. It is time to stand for what you believe in, and be heard. Ignorance is the single greatest tool of oppression.

“Government in its very essence is opposed to all increase in knowledge. Its tendency is towards permanence and against change…the progress of humanity, far from being the result of government, has been made entirely without its aid and in the face of its constant and bitter opposition.”-H.L. Mencken

The Miseducation of the Negro – Dr. Carter G. Woodson
“If you can determine what a man shall think you’ll never have to concern yourself with what he’ll do; If you can make a man feel inferior you’ll never have to compel him to seek an inferior status for he will seek it himself; If you can make a man feel justly an outcast you’ll never have to order him to go to the back door, he’ll go with out being told, and if there is no door his very nature will demand one”
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Old 10-17-2023, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
767 posts, read 445,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No, not blindly following order from a sup...fulfilling my contract.
If that’s what you want to call blindly following orders regardless of legality or regulation, or, even at the lowest level, basic common sense, be my guest. Not exactly forward thinking.
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Old 10-17-2023, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
767 posts, read 445,179 times
Reputation: 1341
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No, we respect American traditions. We aren't wild "status quo destroyers". We don't destroy. We build.
You haven’t “built” anything, you’ve only continued the trend of mediocrity. Quit flattering yourself so much when you’ve done all of nothing.
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Old 10-17-2023, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
767 posts, read 445,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
How would you replace the failed education system in cities where the tax base has collapsed?
I wouldn’t. The first mistake and as mentioned by NBP was making education a “public right” that is more often than not taken advantage of and treated like garbage as opposed to a system where education is a respected privilege.
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Old 10-18-2023, 12:53 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,495 posts, read 57,246,361 times
Reputation: 45741
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciceropolo View Post
... do what the military does best secure the environment for learning. They don't tolerate distracting behaviors from students.

Old post still pertinent.



May 27, 2012
It has never really been about the children. ... To truly make a difference, you need not only angst, but also a firm foundation on what makes the system what it is. Past revolutionaries (Che, King Jr, Gandhi....) all knew how to use the system to their advantage and bring about change. Society loves stupid people because they are so easy to control. To truly make a difference organize with the tools that truly bring about change: Education and Unity. The sheep (people in general) are force fed crap everyday via the media. Unfortunately, they take it all in with their mouths open wide. The uneducated cannot tell the difference between truth and lie, instead they tend to believe everything that is broadcasted without even questioning it. Everyday the system is unjust and unfair. Without education, and unity, this massive corporate lobbied tax hijacked machine can never be re-tooled. It is up to YOU to make the changes needed to improve YOUR society. It is time to stand for what you believe in, and be heard. Ignorance is the single greatest tool of oppression.

...; If you can make a man feel justly an outcast you’ll never have to order him to go to the back door, he’ll go with out being told, and if there is no door his very nature will demand one”
as stated above, ^^^

When education steps outside their purpose to deliver 'education' and the benefits brought by increased learning and ability to discern. There will be social carnage.

Ideas for fixing our schools
1) Clearly define the SPECIFIC objectives
2) Tool to meet the objectives
3) Measure the results of meeting those objectives
4) Fix it.

Rinse and repeat (often)
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Old 10-18-2023, 01:04 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,495 posts, read 57,246,361 times
Reputation: 45741
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
What would you do to solve the problem of significant numbers of children who arrive ..who are not able to take care of their toilet needs?

What have you seen done in your varied experience that would help schools deal with that situation? What solutions have you seen in areas of extreme poverty and family dysfunction that would be applicable in such areas in the United States? How can schools overcome the obstacles of neglect and abuse by the adults responsible for the students' upbringing? How would you solve the challenges of providing schooling when the property tax base collapses and school districts have less than the minimum needed to provide an adequate education?
....
You answered your own question...
Quote:
In my opinion, the problems with America's public schools were not created by, nor can they be solved by the public schools. Perhaps trying to build in social services at schools was the wrong idea and inadvertently created the expectation that schools could solve social problems.
Being the social guardian of our nation is not the purpose or objective of Public Schools (Or corporations... i.e. AT&T... R.I.P.)

Schools do education. Be BEST at what you are trained and tasked with. If burdened by social ills, reject the added burden and let the politicans work out a solution. It's not your core skill or obligation to be the social safety net of a troubled society. The Educational deliverable is to EDUCATE.

Just do it.
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