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Old 10-15-2023, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Concord, CA
7,109 posts, read 9,148,383 times
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Who Runs the Best U.S. Schools? It May Be the Defense Department.

Schools for children of military members achieve results rarely seen in public education.


free link: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/u...smid=url-share

"With about 66,000 students — more than the public school enrollment in Boston or Seattle — the Pentagon’s schools for children of military members and civilian employees quietly achieve results most educators can only dream of.

On the National Assessment of Educational Progress, a federal exam that is considered the gold standard for comparing states and large districts, the Defense Department’s schools outscored every jurisdiction in math and reading last year and managed to avoid widespread pandemic losses."
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Old 10-15-2023, 11:28 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,716 posts, read 59,606,344 times
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There's a lot of incentive for a student when your parent can be called into the boss' office to discuss your shortcomings and behavior in school.
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Old 10-15-2023, 12:06 PM
 
4,338 posts, read 4,172,671 times
Reputation: 5756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Who Runs the Best U.S. Schools? It May Be the Defense Department.

Schools for children of military members achieve results rarely seen in public education.


free link: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/u...smid=url-share

"With about 66,000 students — more than the public school enrollment in Boston or Seattle — the Pentagon’s schools for children of military members and civilian employees quietly achieve results most educators can only dream of.

On the National Assessment of Educational Progress, a federal exam that is considered the gold standard for comparing states and large districts, the Defense Department’s schools outscored every jurisdiction in math and reading last year and managed to avoid widespread pandemic losses."
A couple of things jumped out at me when I first read the article:

Quote:
But there are key differences.

For starters, families have access to housing and health care through the military, and at least one parent has a job.
Quote:
Prudence Carter, a Brown University sociologist who studies educational inequality, said the Defense Department’s results showed what could happen when all students were given the resources of a typical middle-class child: housing, health care, food, quality teachers.
When schools serve primarily students who don't have those resources, you get what we have in many of the them with extremely poor academic achievement. The military levels the playing field, so that even families who earn a low income, have assurances that their basic needs are met. That's not what exists uniformly in public schools in the United States.
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Old 10-15-2023, 12:26 PM
 
12,512 posts, read 8,731,743 times
Reputation: 34270
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
A couple of things jumped out at me when I first read the article:

When schools serve primarily students who don't have those resources, you get what we have in many of the them with extremely poor academic achievement. The military levels the playing field, so that even families who earn a low income, have assurances that their basic needs are met. That's not what exists uniformly in public schools in the United States.
Officers and senior enlisted perhaps, but I had troops under me who were working two jobs outside the military and some on welfare. Too many bases have insufficient housing and put troops "on the economy" to find their own apartment. Often near high cost of living areas.

Our troops are a cross section of American, often themselves from poor backgrounds. And they have all the family problems typical of most families. Along with deployments, long separations, frequent moves. What would really be interesting is to see the performance of those students who attend public schools (in most cases, if there are public schools available, there isn't a DoD school there) and compare the results to the DoD schools.
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Old 10-15-2023, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,887 posts, read 23,631,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
There's a lot of incentive for a student when your parent can be called into the boss' office to discuss your shortcomings and behavior in school.
I'll tell you a story about that. The assistant superintendent who selected me as principal (after panel interviews) was a former "superintendent" for the American military schools in...as I recall...Germany. She was VERY military, and didn't necessarily adjust well to civilian school life. We had a student who was...well, calling him a jerk would be kind. He was so obnoxious so much of the time that most teachers had pretty much given up on him. His father was nuts. Once shot students getting off the school bus with a bee bee gun. And that was on a good day. There was one teacher who had not given up on the boy and had done everything that she could to work with the kid, both in class and after school. Had suffered through a number of parent conferences with the even more obnoxious father and the silent (and probably abused) mother. And was literally an award-winning teacher of English. One day the kid did something in class...his usual obnoxious stuff...and under her breath (but not under her breath enough) the frustrated teacher said "son of a *****". The kid walked out of class, called his father, and the father called the assistant superintendent who ordered me to "Fire that teacher on the spot. Immediately. Within the hour. Don't wait until the end of the school day". And it was clearly an order. The problem was, that was not the way things worked in our school system. To begin with, a principal couldn't fire a teacher; only the personnel office could do that. But beyond that, except for extreme cases like physical or sexual abuse, there had to be a record built up of inappropriate behavior. I called the assistant superintendent for personnel and asked him to intervene. He laughed and said, "Yup, very military. But no, you've got it right. You need to have a conference with the teacher and place a letter of concern in her personnel file. I'll take care of _____".
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Old 10-15-2023, 12:55 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 15,960,329 times
Reputation: 28262
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
There's a lot of incentive for a student when your parent can be called into the boss' office to discuss your shortcomings and behavior in school.
That is no longer allowed and a commander can get relieved for doing it. What commanders can and will do is tell the solider they are giving them time off to address family issues. It does work to a degree.

However, regular public schools can not replicate Department of Defense schools. Why? Because every student in a DoD school has:
  • At least one parent who graduated high school
  • At least one full time employed parent
  • At least one parent who is drug tested on a regular basis
  • Reliable access to free or low cost medical care
  • A home with their own bedroom after age 10, and that they can only share with one same sex sibling if age 6-10
  • Homes that have all utilities
  • Nosey neighbors who will report suspected neglect

They also live in communities where:
  • Curfews are enforced
  • Almost all adult males work
  • There is still a large percentage of stay-at-home mothers
  • Meritocracy is still valued
  • Economic stratification is limited
  • Volunteerism is a norm
  • Youth centers exist and are not crime or gang spawning grounds
  • Safe clean playgrounds are in every neighborhood
  • Parents are expected to support the schools
  • Old fashioned values are respected and encouraged
  • Segregation does not exist
  • There are strict and enforced rules for supervision of children

And a big one, military kids are far, far, far more likely to live in an intact two-parent home, particularly minority students. Which is another way of saying their dads, or at least a committed step-dad, are more likely to be living with them.

This is likely to change in the future as the old military ethos is being torn down….
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)

Last edited by Oldhag1; 10-15-2023 at 01:16 PM.. Reason: Spelling error that mattered
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Old 10-15-2023, 01:11 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 15,960,329 times
Reputation: 28262
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Officers and senior enlisted perhaps, but I had troops under me who were working two jobs outside the military and some on welfare. Too many bases have insufficient housing and put troops "on the economy" to find their own apartment. Often near high cost of living areas.
Those kid do not go to DoD schools. They go to the schools in the community where they live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Our troops are a cross section of American, often themselves from poor backgrounds. And they have all the family problems typical of most families. Along with deployments, long separations, frequent moves. What would really be interesting is to see the performance of those students who attend public schools (in most cases, if there are public schools available, there isn't a DoD school there) and compare the results to the DoD schools.
Currently working in one of those school systems and have many other times over my career. That data exists - they do better on testing, particularly minority students. It is a combination of having a parent who the type of person who self-selects to be in the military, having a primary culture that still promotes meritocracy, and the list I gave in the post above. By the way, for military families their military culture is generally primary to their other cultural identities, including race. Gender is the only cultural identity that supersedes military identity, and even then gender is not as impactful as it is for non-military people.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 10-15-2023, 01:15 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,716 posts, read 59,606,344 times
Reputation: 60244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
That is no longer allowed and a commander can get relieved for doing it. What commanders can and will do is tell the solider they are giving them time off to address family issues. It does work to a degree.….
I didn't know that. I know that COs can't order one of their people to pay their rent although I imagine they can "suggest" financial counseling and short term assistance.
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Old 10-15-2023, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale
764 posts, read 445,179 times
Reputation: 1341
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'll tell you a story about that. The assistant superintendent who selected me as principal (after panel interviews) was a former "superintendent" for the American military schools in...as I recall...Germany. She was VERY military, and didn't necessarily adjust well to civilian school life. We had a student who was...well, calling him a jerk would be kind. He was so obnoxious so much of the time that most teachers had pretty much given up on him. His father was nuts. Once shot students getting off the school bus with a bee bee gun. And that was on a good day. There was one teacher who had not given up on the boy and had done everything that she could to work with the kid, both in class and after school. Had suffered through a number of parent conferences with the even more obnoxious father and the silent (and probably abused) mother. And was literally an award-winning teacher of English. One day the kid did something in class...his usual obnoxious stuff...and under her breath (but not under her breath enough) the frustrated teacher said "son of a *****". The kid walked out of class, called his father, and the father called the assistant superintendent who ordered me to "Fire that teacher on the spot. Immediately. Within the hour. Don't wait until the end of the school day". And it was clearly an order. The problem was, that was not the way things worked in our school system. To begin with, a principal couldn't fire a teacher; only the personnel office could do that. But beyond that, except for extreme cases like physical or sexual abuse, there had to be a record built up of inappropriate behavior. I called the assistant superintendent for personnel and asked him to intervene. He laughed and said, "Yup, very military. But no, you've got it right. You need to have a conference with the teacher and place a letter of concern in her personnel file. I'll take care of _____".
I wouldn’t have been surprised at all if you followed the sup’s order even if it broke policy. You know, “contract law” and all that.
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Old 10-15-2023, 02:26 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,495 posts, read 57,246,361 times
Reputation: 45741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Who Runs the Best U.S. Schools? It May Be the Defense Department.

Schools for children of military members achieve results rarely seen in public education.

...
as always, and as expected... (this is the C-D EDUCATION forum)

100 excuses + "You CAN'T do THAT!!!"
"We've done that 100 times, It fails every time..."

No recognition of... "Oh yes, that's a great idea that could be implemented or improved upon"

There is NO improving USA EDU. It is a sacred institution, and we all know what happens to those.

Someday it will be totally empty, but never abandoned.
It will still be THE BEST (Tho empty and irrelevant)

Onward we march, off the cliff.

(Knowing several DoDD employees... they have a saying... "If only I had known, I would have bailed on the Public EDU System years ago.")

But.
That will never work!
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