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Old 11-07-2023, 02:27 PM
 
19,393 posts, read 17,604,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You've hit the nail on the head with the bolded. There are quite a few posters here who toss out simple solutions, often one-liners, as if they have an actual proposal for change.
And there are a couple of die-hards happy to watch the Titanic sink deeper and deeper by the head.
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Old 11-07-2023, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,942 posts, read 23,679,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
1. So your posit is the - nothing below 50% - bit was developed because legions of otherwise solid performers blew a single test?


I don't buy that even for a second.


2. I never agree with decreasing standards.
All I can tell you is that in the school I was in at the time, the predominant point in favor of it was that kids could get so far behind they could never dig themselves out of the hole.

However, where did I say anything about what I bolded above. In which post (give us the number) did I say that? I would suggest that if you want to maintain or improve standards in this forum that you might not intentionally misrepresent what others post.
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Old 11-07-2023, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,900 posts, read 7,240,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
High school doesn't work the way elementary does.

Say a kid is failing Bio, what would be accomplished throwing him back to Earth Science, as an example?

You might make a case for a drop to AlgI from AlgII, but again, there are a lot of variables.

For the most part it isn't lack of ability (a caveat would be years behind in Reading and not knowing Arithmetic) or cognitive deficits (in that case the kid should have been identified as SPED) but attitude and behavior.

Almost without exception normal intelligence kids who fail classes do so because of the refusal to do the work and constantly being disruptive (full disclosure, I failed AlgII because I had absolutely no clue what was going on in it, a result of not understanding AlgI. Some of that was the fact that every single Math teacher I had was from the "Do an Example on the Board and Assign the Even Problems" school of Math teaching. None would ever take the time to explain the "why" of a problem. That happens in every subject by the way).
OK, I did have an elementary student in mind. But isn't it easier for a high schooler to switch classes? High school isn't as stratified, regarding classes of mixed grade level, as elementary is.

Don't they have Dummy Bio, Regular Bio, and AP Bio? When I was in high school, I seem to recall classes were stratified not by age, but by ability. (I did a few stints in summer school myself FWIW, but they kept putting me in advanced classes -- after graduation I read most of the assign books I blew off. I was such an idiot)
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Old 11-07-2023, 04:16 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,517 posts, read 57,311,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
And there are a couple of die-hards happy to watch the Titanic sink deeper and deeper by the head.
or... there will come a time to abandon the Titanic (USA EDU as we know it) and move on.

No shortage of countries who have successfully moved on (decades / centuries ago).

1912 might be a tad 'old-school', and things have changed because we now know- so-much!

As evidenced by our awesome solutions (only excuses) here on C-D
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Old 11-07-2023, 04:23 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,770 posts, read 59,680,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
OK, I did have an elementary student in mind. But isn't it easier for a high schooler to switch classes? High school isn't as stratified, regarding classes of mixed grade level, as elementary is.

Don't they have Dummy Bio, Regular Bio, and AP Bio? When I was in high school, I seem to recall classes were stratified not by age, but by ability. (I did a few stints in summer school myself FWIW, but they kept putting me in advanced classes -- after graduation I read most of the assign books I blew off. I was such an idiot)
As far as classes go you have AP Bio, Honors Bio (maybe), and everybody else.

Yes, you can switch sections but then you run into a ripple. Switch a kid from 1st to 4th Period Bio, then you have to find a class you can fit him into 1st period. His 4th Period was, say, AlgI which isn't offered 1st Period. Now you have another class to flip, actually two more.

You're presupposing the kid is misplaced. What we're talking about is the chronic underachiever who's on track to be a 5th or even 6th year Senior. It doesn't matter what level class he's in he'll act out, refuse to work and fail.
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Old 11-07-2023, 04:31 PM
 
19,393 posts, read 17,604,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
All I can tell you is that in the school I was in at the time, the predominant point in favor of it was that kids could get so far behind they could never dig themselves out of the hole.

However, where did I say anything about what I bolded above. In which post (give us the number) did I say that? I would suggest that if you want to maintain or improve standards in this forum that you might not intentionally misrepresent what others post.
ClaraC made the claim in post 11, I disagreed with her in post 24, you chimed in that ClaraC was correct in post 28.


ClaraC's words exactly from post #11 "Here's the reason that policy came about to not give grades below a 50. Because a student could, and often did, really blow a major test. Really blow it, and get like a 20."


Your words exactly from post #28 "Sorry, but whether you agree with the policy or not, Clara is correct, that was thinking that led to it."
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Old 11-07-2023, 04:47 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,770 posts, read 59,680,653 times
Reputation: 60286
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
ClaraC made the claim in post 11, I disagreed with her in post 24, you chimed in that ClaraC was correct in post 28.


ClaraC's words exactly from post #11 "Here's the reason that policy came about to not give grades below a 50. Because a student could, and often did, really blow a major test. Really blow it, and get like a 20."


Your words exactly from post #28 "Sorry, but whether you agree with the policy or not, Clara is correct, that was thinking that led to it."
That was one of the things that led to it. Don't forget that much of this is coupled with "authentic assessments" (which means anything other than a paper and pencil test. It could be a student made poster, a student made graphic comic, a student penned story). The theory behind that is that many kids can't take tests.
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Old 11-07-2023, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,900 posts, read 7,240,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post

You're presupposing the kid is misplaced. What we're talking about is the chronic underachiever who's on track to be a 5th or even 6th year Senior. It doesn't matter what level class he's in he'll act out, refuse to work and fail.
I suppose the kid ages out eventually. Amazon warehouses and Walmart are today's coal mines and textile mills that absorb the deltas. And they have smart phones, so problem solved.
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Old 11-07-2023, 05:03 PM
 
19,393 posts, read 17,604,254 times
Reputation: 16956
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
That was one of the things that led to it. Don't forget that much of this is coupled with "authentic assessments" (which means anything other than a paper and pencil test. It could be a student made poster, a student made graphic comic, a student penned story). The theory behind that is that many kids can't take tests.
"One of the things "is a whole lot different than "the thing." ClaraC's statement was more or less declarative and specific.........she wrote "the reason" she did not write "a reason."


Not bagging on you in any way. However, kids who can't take tests need to be identified and offered remediation. That and related lines of logic underscore much of why our kids are getting clobbered relative to much of the first world.
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Old 11-07-2023, 05:36 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,439 posts, read 17,013,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
ClaraC made the claim in post 11, I disagreed with her in post 24, you chimed in that ClaraC was correct in post 28.


ClaraC's words exactly from post #11 "Here's the reason that policy came about to not give grades below a 50. Because a student could, and often did, really blow a major test. Really blow it, and get like a 20."


Your words exactly from post #28 "Sorry, but whether you agree with the policy or not, Clara is correct, that was thinking that led to it."
But it wasn't about one single test. It's about the entire school year.

From the OP's link..a teacher's statement:


“I can probably count on one hand how many kids are actually performing on their grade level.”
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