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Old 12-20-2023, 11:25 AM
 
Location: WA
5,308 posts, read 7,595,498 times
Reputation: 8286

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As a teacher I'm generally pretty relaxed about dress codes. Looking around my classroom today most of the kids (boys and girls) are in jeans and hoodies or t-shirts. A few are wearing sweat pants or leggings. None are dressing inappropriately. But reasonable and equitable dress codes do serve a purpose. We aren't just teaching students English, math, and science. We are teaching them how to be grown up adults. Part of that includes showing up on time, doing your work on time, and yes, dressing in ways appropriate to the situation.

And as a teacher I can tell you that there are always going to be a minority of kids who are going to push all of those limits regardless of what they are. They will push whatever limits you set for attendance and tardiness. They will push whatever limits you set for classwork. And they will push whatever limits you set for dress.

Children are not adults and they need to actually be taught these things. Reasonable dress codes are a part of that. We are doing them no favors if we never teach them to be on time, do their work on time, and dress appropriately. As well as other basic things like treating your fellow students and staff with kindness and consideration, picking up after yourself, and all the other things that go along with being part of a society.

That doesn't mean schools need to be Nazis about such things. Just reasonable.
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Old 12-20-2023, 11:44 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,064 posts, read 106,986,186 times
Reputation: 115858
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenMM View Post
We didn't have, or need, dress codes. High schoolers either know what to wear and what not to, or don't care and will wear whatever they wish.

We did have a haircut code for male high schoolers. My friend and I liked our hair long (it was the 60's) and refused to buckle under to The Man. Every day we cut 1/4" off our hair, reported to the hair czar, and were sent packing. This went on for almost 3 weeks. While we were out of school we played tennis and got quite good at it. Finally we cleared the school's hair limit and reported for duty oops, I mean school.

People's hair and dress is no one else's business. This whole thing gave me a rebellious attitude towards authority that has served me well for 72 years. The minute you let strangers push you around and dictate their ideas to you is the moment you lose your freedom. If you ain't putting food on my table, a roof over my head or keeping me warm in bed at night, then what I do is none of your business.
I don't see how a hair code has any relevance in a public school. Some conservative private schools of that era would have a hair code for the men, but what would be the justification in public school? Long hair doesn't hinder one's ability to study, or impede others' ability to focus on their studies. I guess public schools back then generally were a lot more regimented than later on. I wonder if the Berkeley and Oakland, CA, schools had a hair code in the late 60's for the male students.
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Old 12-20-2023, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,217 posts, read 23,846,516 times
Reputation: 32595
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
As a teacher I'm generally pretty relaxed about dress codes. Looking around my classroom today most of the kids (boys and girls) are in jeans and hoodies or t-shirts. A few are wearing sweat pants or leggings. None are dressing inappropriately. But reasonable and equitable dress codes do serve a purpose. We aren't just teaching students English, math, and science. We are teaching them how to be grown up adults. Part of that includes showing up on time, doing your work on time, and yes, dressing in ways appropriate to the situation.

And as a teacher I can tell you that there are always going to be a minority of kids who are going to push all of those limits regardless of what they are. They will push whatever limits you set for attendance and tardiness. They will push whatever limits you set for classwork. And they will push whatever limits you set for dress.

Children are not adults and they need to actually be taught these things. Reasonable dress codes are a part of that. We are doing them no favors if we never teach them to be on time, do their work on time, and dress appropriately. As well as other basic things like treating your fellow students and staff with kindness and consideration, picking up after yourself, and all the other things that go along with being part of a society.

That doesn't mean schools need to be Nazis about such things. Just reasonable.
excellent post
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Old 12-20-2023, 02:41 PM
 
Location: WA
5,308 posts, read 7,595,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I don't see how a hair code has any relevance in a public school. Some conservative private schools of that era would have a hair code for the men, but what would be the justification in public school? Long hair doesn't hinder one's ability to study, or impede others' ability to focus on their studies. I guess public schools back then generally were a lot more regimented than later on. I wonder if the Berkeley and Oakland, CA, schools had a hair code in the late 60's for the male students.
Most public schools don't have much in the way of hair codes these days except for conservative pockets in the south like Texas.

But some kind of minimal dress codes are generally necessary in HS if you don't want boys showing up shirtless in swim trunks and flip flops. And girls showing up with nothing but bootie shorts and sports bras. Nor do you want them coming to school with obscene, racist or gang banger messages on their clothing. Back when I started teaching some of the boys would do the pants sag thing and would basically be walking around in their boxers with their pants sagged down to their thighs. I never go that one, but that style seems to have faded.

A big part of school is teaching kids how to behave appropriately in the adult world. Learning to dress appropriate to the situation is part of that.
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Old 12-21-2023, 02:00 PM
 
Location: NY/LA
4,645 posts, read 4,508,264 times
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I attended an all-male Jesuit high school in NYC in the early 90's. I believe the dress code now is exactly the same as it was 30+ years ago: collared shirt, no jeans, no sneakers.
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Old 12-21-2023, 02:20 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,942 posts, read 59,942,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
Most public schools don't have much in the way of hair codes these days except for conservative pockets in the south like Texas.

But some kind of minimal dress codes are generally necessary in HS if you don't want boys showing up shirtless in swim trunks and flip flops. And girls showing up with nothing but bootie shorts and sports bras. Nor do you want them coming to school with obscene, racist or gang banger messages on their clothing. Back when I started teaching some of the boys would do the pants sag thing and would basically be walking around in their boxers with their pants sagged down to their thighs. I never go that one, but that style seems to have faded.

A big part of school is teaching kids how to behave appropriately in the adult world. Learning to dress appropriate to the situation is part of that.
Why is it that so many supposedly intelligent adults don't "get" that? And then when a kid shows up late/disheveled/inappropriately dressed can we guess which group/institution gets blamed? Hint: NOT the parents.

I absolutely despised uniforms, I've mentioned my reasons earlier, and the kids didn't learn how to dress appropriately with them (although many, especially girls, figured out how to wear them inappropriately).

All this is something that teachers should be reinforcing and not teaching but, quite honestly, I saw enough parents over 30+ years who didn't know what was appropriate and what wasn't to see where the kids were coming from.

And yes, fifty years ago I'd wager most public schools had some form of dress code, much stricter than today.
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Old 12-21-2023, 02:56 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,279 posts, read 54,042,790 times
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My bad luck! Graduated from a NJ HS in '67, my freshman years was the first year and my senior year the last that the boys had to wear jacket and tie and IIRC the girls had to wear dress or skirt, no slacks.
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Old 12-21-2023, 03:24 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,275 posts, read 10,516,315 times
Reputation: 12571
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver View Post
Most public schools don't have much in the way of hair codes these days except for conservative pockets in the south like Texas.

But some kind of minimal dress codes are generally necessary in HS if you don't want boys showing up shirtless in swim trunks and flip flops. And girls showing up with nothing but bootie shorts and sports bras. Nor do you want them coming to school with obscene, racist or gang banger messages on their clothing. Back when I started teaching some of the boys would do the pants sag thing and would basically be walking around in their boxers with their pants sagged down to their thighs. I never go that one, but that style seems to have faded.

A big part of school is teaching kids how to behave appropriately in the adult world. Learning to dress appropriate to the situation is part of that.
I agree with your points, but I have to point out that schools do have girls showing up with nothing but bootie shorts and sports bras.

Regarding hair codes these days, I have not seen one. There is something with boys that drives me crazy. I saw a boy today with hair covering his eyes to the point that I don't know how he gets around and functions. I see this with maybe 5-10% of boys. I see one boy who has his hair shaved on one side and hair on top falls down to his chin. This boys are constantly flipping their heads so they can see. But it doesn't violate any dress code that I have seen.
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Old 12-21-2023, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
12,640 posts, read 9,142,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaAnna View Post
This public selective high school topped the state in end of high school exams for 27 straight years, beaten this year by an all boys public selective.
The uniform does cater for those who are Muslim (unlike in France)
https://jamesruse-h.schools.nsw.gov.au/

This primary (elementary ) school is in one the most disadvantaged areas of Sydney. You see they do not have matching shoes, unlike many private schools.

https://mtdruitt-p.schools.nsw.gov.au/

Most people see uniforms as more practical, avoiding a morning battle about what to wear. More egalitarian, aiming to minimise competition about the cost of clothing. Schools see it as a way to develop pride in the school. Generally cheaper and even some expensive private schools have second hand uniform shops. Public schools provide uniforms to those who need them free of charge.
Uniforms for schools are great as far as I'm concerned, as long as there are different standards for males and females (because there really are differences in the two genders). For one, the poor don't stand out. I remember my days in high school when Izod with the little alligator was the "thing". Many couldn't afford those shirts. Another, uniforms offensive or political items, like tee shirts. Lots of advantages for school uniforms.
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Old 12-21-2023, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,217 posts, read 23,846,516 times
Reputation: 32595
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
I agree with your points, but I have to point out that schools do have girls showing up with nothing but bootie shorts and sports bras.

Regarding hair codes these days, I have not seen one. There is something with boys that drives me crazy. I saw a boy today with hair covering his eyes to the point that I don't know how he gets around and functions. I see this with maybe 5-10% of boys. I see one boy who has his hair shaved on one side and hair on top falls down to his chin. This boys are constantly flipping their heads so they can see. But it doesn't violate any dress code that I have seen.
Just out of curiosity.....does he get around and function?

And the reason I ask is that our district...in regard to clothing...operated based on what, as I recall, was a federal district court decision that dealt with inflammatory language on a t-shirt. That decision may have been modified greatly since then, but at the time it basically said that a school can't say something on a t-shirt causes disruption...unless it actually causes disruption.
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