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Old 12-30-2023, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Amelia Island
4,790 posts, read 5,953,784 times
Reputation: 6242

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As a parent of twin daughters who are 15 and in 9th grade Pandoras Box has already been opened………..it’s too late.

1. We managed to get by until the age of 14 before they received smart phones. Maybe we did it because of possible peer pressure although there were some teachers asking their classmates to scan QR codes on educational material.

2. They have had Chrome Books for the last three years. They have some classes that have no text books. An example of one class they take as a few others is the teacher doesn’t print out materials but rather sends them the work sheets electronically and the twins print them out at home and then when completed they take a picture of it completed with the work showing and send it back to the teacher electronically. Many of their assignments are done this way so phones are a bit necessary.

3. Classroom respect for the teachers seems to be diminishing rapidly. My daughters often remark that many students show a lack of respect for their teachers which borderline abuse on said teachers. As far as teachers putting their desks in the back of the classroom as someone mentioned….yes as my daughters say many children open their chrome books and hide their phones behind them to play games.

We have all noticed when we go to stores and restaurants young children and their parents on their phones. Coupled with the 100% reliance on Chrome Books in the schools we as a society have gone down the smart phone rabbit hole there is no turning back.

The younger generations through no fault of their own were given this technology to embrace at an early age. They have embraced Apps used for medical, restaurants, payments, delivery’s, etc.

I don’t like it but at the same time we don’t have the money to send our daughters to a non computer based curriculum school for their education.

As a former Apprenticeship coordinator for skilled trades we noticed that the students ability to look up material in a tech manual or repair manual and actually read to learn is very hard for most as they have learned an education by searching for an answer on the internet.

I don’t know the answers but I do think there is no turning back now unfortunately. If the pouches are accepted great news, but for now society is encouraging all it can to require our daily lives be smartphone driven.

Last edited by JBtwinz; 12-30-2023 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 12-30-2023, 03:22 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,247 posts, read 10,491,670 times
Reputation: 12539
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBtwinz View Post
As a parent of twin daughters who are 15 and in 9th grade Pandoras Box has already been opened………..it’s too late.

1. We managed to get by until the age of 14 before they received smart phones. Maybe we did it because of possible peer pressure although there were some teachers asking their classmates to scan QR codes on educational material.

2. They have had Chrome Books for the last three years. They have some classes that have no text books. An example of one class they take as a few others is the teacher doesn’t print out materials but rather sends them the work sheets electronically and the twins print them out at home and then when completed they take a picture of it completed with the work showing and send it back to the teacher electronically. Many of their assignments are done this way so phones are a bit necessary.

3. Classroom respect for the teachers seems to be diminishing rapidly. My daughters often remark that many students show a lack of respect for their teachers which borderline abuse on said teachers. As far as teachers putting their desks in the back of the classroom as someone mentioned….yes as my daughters say many children open their chrome books and hide their phones behind them to play games.

We have all noticed when we go to stores and restaurants young children and their parents on their phones. Coupled with the 100% reliance on Chrome Books in the schools we as a society have gone down the smart phone rabbit hole there is no turning back.

The younger generations through no fault of their own were given this technology to embrace at an early age. They have embraced Apps used for medical, restaurants, payments, delivery’s, etc.

I don’t like it but at the same time we don’t have the money to send our daughters to a non computer based curriculum school for their education.

As a former Apprenticeship coordinator for skilled trades we noticed that the students ability to look up material in a tech manual or repair manual and actually read to learn is very hard for most as they have learned an education by searching for an answer on the internet.

I don’t know the answers but I do think there is no turning back now unfortunately. If the pouches are accepted great news, but for now society is encouraging all it can to require our daily lives be smartphone driven.
This is an excellent post and I can relate to everything you stated. A few items stand out. You said, "They have some classes that have no text books." Do they have their own copy of the textbook or a classroom set in those classes?

Your comment about the ability to lookup material in a manual and actually read it is something that stands out to me. Many students are graduating from high school today who can't read because they have never had to read in school.

You mentioned about the "the 100% reliance on Chrome Books in the schools," but there is an issue with that because students don't charge their Chromebooks or break them. I had one student who couldn't take care of their Chromebook, so the school provided a Chromebook for him in each of his classrooms.

I don't like that teachers assume that everyone has a smartphone and have students scan QR codes on educational material.

I also wonder about the idea of teachers sending out worksheets electronically and having students print, complete, take a picture and mail the worksheet back. I wonder why the teacher doesn't use a worksheet form that the student can fill out? Another option is an application such as Kami that the student can edit a worksheet. Not all schools make it easy for students to print documents and a teacher shouldn't assume that students have printers at home.
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Old 12-30-2023, 06:33 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,871 posts, read 59,846,876 times
Reputation: 60409
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
This is an excellent post and I can relate to everything you stated. A few items stand out. You said, "They have some classes that have no text books." Do they have their own copy of the textbook or a classroom set in those classes?

It would depend. My former system had neither at the beginning of the year. It didn't pay the fees for accessing the text on-line so we were locked out and the system under ordered classroom sets.

Your comment about the ability to lookup material in a manual and actually read it is something that stands out to me. Many students are graduating from high school today who can't read because they have never had to read in school.

You mentioned about the "the 100% reliance on Chrome Books in the schools," but there is an issue with that because students don't charge their Chromebooks or break them. I had one student who couldn't take care of their Chromebook, so the school provided a Chromebook for him in each of his classrooms.

I don't like that teachers assume that everyone has a smartphone and have students scan QR codes on educational material.

It's not the teachers necessarily but school based and above administration. In my very middle/upper middle class school we had a large cohort of students who either didn't have internet access at home for whatever reason (mostly cost) or were not allowed to use the home computer because they messed them up so badly. The reality is also that phones can't do everything

I also wonder about the idea of teachers sending out worksheets electronically and having students print, complete, take a picture and mail the worksheet back. I wonder why the teacher doesn't use a worksheet form that the student can fill out? Another option is an application such as Kami that the student can edit a worksheet. Not all schools make it easy for students to print documents and a teacher shouldn't assume that students have printers at home.
It would seem to me that the kid having to take a picture of the electronic worksheet adds at least one unnecessary step.


Bold for differentiation.
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Old 12-30-2023, 10:54 PM
 
179 posts, read 268,241 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seguinite View Post
My last in this thread... You people that simply accept the poor behavior are the biggest part of the problem.
Yes, yes, and yes.
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Old 12-30-2023, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creo View Post
Yes, yes, and yes.
That can't be "yes, yes, and yes" because it was one factor.
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Old 12-30-2023, 11:59 PM
 
Location: WA
5,286 posts, read 7,577,932 times
Reputation: 8225
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
This is an excellent post and I can relate to everything you stated. A few items stand out. You said, "They have some classes that have no text books." Do they have their own copy of the textbook or a classroom set in those classes?

Your comment about the ability to lookup material in a manual and actually read it is something that stands out to me. Many students are graduating from high school today who can't read because they have never had to read in school.

You mentioned about the "the 100% reliance on Chrome Books in the schools," but there is an issue with that because students don't charge their Chromebooks or break them. I had one student who couldn't take care of their Chromebook, so the school provided a Chromebook for him in each of his classrooms.

I don't like that teachers assume that everyone has a smartphone and have students scan QR codes on educational material.

I also wonder about the idea of teachers sending out worksheets electronically and having students print, complete, take a picture and mail the worksheet back. I wonder why the teacher doesn't use a worksheet form that the student can fill out? Another option is an application such as Kami that the student can edit a worksheet. Not all schools make it easy for students to print documents and a teacher shouldn't assume that students have printers at home.

Teacher here. A couple of comments.

First, don't assume that old-school textbooks are actually good. Many are not. Many are also dated and in the 14th or so edition with little changes over 20 years other than perhaps updating photos. I teach biology and there are plenty of amazingly good online resources that are better than most textbooks. Many of them are free. For example, in my field I use this free resource a lot: https://www.biointeractive.org/ Here are two more examples of free online curriculum resources: https://learn.genetics.utah.edu/ and https://serc.carleton.edu/earthlabs/index.html

Second, text books are expensive. The current edition of the most commonly used HS biology textbook (Miller-Levine) costs over $150 a copy which is more than the cost of an actual Chromebook. Multiply that by 5 academic classes and the average student is walking around with $750 worth of textbooks in their backpack. For the current textbook I'm using the district bought a classroom set of 20 copies that I keep on a cart in the classroom (I have 5 sections of 25-33 students each). But they also have access to the textbook publishers e-book which is a tabbed pdf version of the textbook with some additional features that actually make it more usable for students such as the fact that they can word search and one can click on words and terms and have definitions pop out so no need to page back to the index or glossary. Plus, one Chromebook is vastly easier for students to carry around than 5 big textbooks. These days we are down to only a small handful of giant textbook publishing companies that push out some egregiously bad stuff and don't seem to care. They run their companies like some private equity firm did gutting Sears. Pearson, the largest is not even a US company, it is based in the UK.

Third, teachers expecting students to print material at home is very poor form. Complain to the teacher or school administration if it is a regular thing and not some one-off event because printers at school were down or something. My district has a print shop and I provide printed materials when I want them working on printed material. I post PDFs of all assignments to Canvas (teaching portal) for students who may be sick or trying to do something at home and lost the assignment or some such. But that is for their convenience and I tell them that if they don't have a printer, just read off the screen and answer the questions on notebook paper. Shrug. These things are not difficult.

Fourth, Chromebooks allow types of student collaboration that did not exist in the days before computers. Such as things like sharing data across computers. For example, students in a lab group can run an experiment using a single Chromebook and digital probes (Temperature, pH, motion detectors, etc.) and then share their resulting data across all their machines for analysis later. They can do some pretty cool stuff.

We live in a digital world. It is pointless to teach students like we are living in the 1930s. The college and future workplace that they will be moving on to doesn't live on paper books. And is less so every passing year.

Last edited by texasdiver; 12-31-2023 at 12:09 AM..
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Old 12-31-2023, 08:23 AM
 
12,577 posts, read 8,809,297 times
Reputation: 34380
My kid's school system went all in on Chromebooks several years ago. Their thought was that Chromebooks were cheaper than textbooks and teachers would build class "texts" (for lack of a better word) by compiling and organizing online resources in sequence and in line with state standards. There were big press releases and interviews in the news on how much they were going to save using Chromebooks instead of textbooks.

The reality was:
a. Kids brook Chromebooks much faster than they ruined textbooks. The replacement rate, and therefore cost, was much higher than textbooks. You could say charge the parents, but the kids who broke them were the same ones with parents who couldn't put food on the table. You can't get blood from a turnip.
b. Teachers didn't write structured "texts" like expected. It was actually a lot of effort to create a "text" using online material. Finding it, validating it, comparing to state standards, putting it in sequence, and then ensuring all the teachers were using the same material. They found to do it properly, they would have to pay people over the summer to create these "texts."
c. Many students don't have access to the internet at home. Some couldn't afford it; others lived beyond the end of the line.

In the end, they still had to buy textbooks and stop issuing Chromebooks to everyone to take home, limiting them to classroom use.
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Old 12-31-2023, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Amelia Island
4,790 posts, read 5,953,784 times
Reputation: 6242
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
This is an excellent post and I can relate to everything you stated. A few items stand out. You said, "They have some classes that have no text books." Do they have their own copy of the textbook or a classroom set in those classes?

Your comment about the ability to lookup material in a manual and actually read it is something that stands out to me. Many students are graduating from high school today who can't read because they have never had to read in school.

You mentioned about the "the 100% reliance on Chrome Books in the schools," but there is an issue with that because students don't charge their Chromebooks or break them. I had one student who couldn't take care of their Chromebook, so the school provided a Chromebook for him in each of his classrooms.

I don't like that teachers assume that everyone has a smartphone and have students scan QR codes on educational material.

I also wonder about the idea of teachers sending out worksheets electronically and having students print, complete, take a picture and mail the worksheet back. I wonder why the teacher doesn't use a worksheet form that the student can fill out? Another option is an application such as Kami that the student can edit a worksheet. Not all schools make it easy for students to print documents and a teacher shouldn't assume that students have printers at home.
I believe they have one or two classes with a text book but they rely heavily on their Chromebooks in class.

Parents pay for damage although problems with computers or charging cords are taken care of by the school.

My wife has had to request textbooks from the school and each require an $80 deposit.

In each class syllabus it loosely defines the teachers responsibility on whether they provide worksheets.

Even my daughters ceramic class where they take their projects home in an airtight container the teacher requires a picture of the completed project sent to her before midnight of that evenings assignment.

In multiple classes the teacher requires assignments once completed to be sent to them electronically.
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Old 12-31-2023, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Midwest
9,191 posts, read 10,963,638 times
Reputation: 17395
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
To be honest, I think that a better solution is some type of electronic blocking system, with exceptions for the school cafeteria at lunch and for teachers in the faculty lounge and other very select places.
A jammer works for me. I'd never allow any kid to use their phone in my class, were I a teacher. Way back when, this would not even have been a debate.

DON'T BRING YOUR PHONE TO SCHOOL. PERIOD. It goes in the landfill if we catch you using it or with it.
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Old 12-31-2023, 10:00 AM
 
15,084 posts, read 7,118,176 times
Reputation: 18928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
A jammer works for me. I'd never allow any kid to use their phone in my class, were I a teacher. Way back when, this would not even have been a debate.

DON'T BRING YOUR PHONE TO SCHOOL. PERIOD. It goes in the landfill if we catch you using it or with it.
If it goes to the landfill, I would own you. You have zero right to throw away or destroy personal property. Could you, personally, afford to replace 30 phones you destroyed?
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