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Old 02-07-2024, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Stop telling people what the actual truth is, they don't want to hear it.

Factoid for others: Home Ec, which some of you have declared is no longer offered, is now called Family and Consumer Science.
When I first became a vice-principal in our middle school 1988), we had 10 classes of "teen living", which was home ec. semester elective. Fifteen years later we had 3 classes of "teen living". So we had gone from 2 full-time home ec teachers down to a part timer. Most other electives had grown and stayed about the same. (And by the way, room use was a big factor in an overcrowded school, and home ec required a full kitchen, a lecture room, a living room, and a sewing room).

The home ec teacher came to complain about what 'we' were doing to her course. There was no 'we' -- it was parent and student choice. And I said, "Do you realize that for all practical purposes you are teaching the same course they taught when I was in high school in the late 1960s?" And she said, "That's not true. We have microwave ovens now!" "And how many days does it take to teach kids how to use a microwave oven?"

An elective should be just that -- an elective. And schools shouldn't be deciding which electives students and parents elect. Do I wish I could sew a button on a shirt? I sure do. Do I think I should have been forced to learn that in school...with a system hiring a full-time teacher to teach me that? No, I do not.
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Old 02-07-2024, 09:40 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,871 posts, read 59,846,876 times
Reputation: 60409
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
That's easy - Money.

You've accidentally mistaken "public education" for "non-profit education." The profit is for the marketers of the material, who jump in bed with the administrations (a metaphor...mainly), and now your school course are chosen by the guy with the loudest lobbying department.


There's no profit in teaching "life."
Which is actually what schools do and always have done. Be on time. Do your best work. Meet deadlines. Work with others. Be polite. Plus a bunch of others.

That's what "life" is.

Schools get kids when they're five and have them for six or seven hours a day. Who has them the rest of the time?

One problem that I saw towards the end of my career is that kids, and to an extent parents, started to put things in separate boxes.

"Why are we doing math in Biology?"
"Why are we learning about Greek gods in Literature?"
"Why are we learning about inventions and science in History?"

Kids, and to an extent parents, weren't able to integrate information and skills across the disciplines. That was why one of the new hot licks for a couple years was for teachers in a couple different courses (Lit and World History as an example) to team teach units. To show the kids how things spread across and between classes.
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Old 02-07-2024, 09:49 AM
 
12,577 posts, read 8,809,297 times
Reputation: 34380
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Stop telling people what the actual truth is, they don't want to hear it.

Factoid for others: Home Ec, which some of you have declared is no longer offered, is now called Family and Consumer Science.
Except it's only true in some places but not others. For example, our local high school dropped Home Ec and didn't rename it to something else. They dropped it completely and got rid of the teachers who were teaching it. Same thing if we look at their "Career and Technical Education" -- most of the programs offered under it are "pre - college something" (IE prelaw, pre-engineering, pre-STEM, etc). Only a couple are actually what we would have called vocational historically (welding & cosmetology). And the catch is, those aren't actually taught at the high school. Instead, students in those have to drive two counties over to the nearest tech school to take those courses. No high school in the county has a Vo-Tech program.

One of the funniest classes in Career & Technical Education is the one to prepare for post secondary education, focusing on "The learner will explore postsecondary options and financial aid available. The learner will develop an understanding of the ACT and best practices for taking the ACT, The learner will practice content." Taken right out of the school handbook.
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Old 02-07-2024, 09:51 AM
 
6,922 posts, read 6,979,930 times
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At least when I was in school, the only classes that even remotely taught "life" were home ec and shop, or whatever politically correct term they use for them these days. They were required in middle school, but were extremely discouraged in high school. We were told that colleges would not accept us if they saw home ec or shop on our transcript. Trouble is, middle school is a long ways away from when you will be making use of the skills taught in those classes.

The other problem was, those classes focused on the wrong topics. For example, in home ec, we learned how to embroider a pillow, but never learned how to fix a button on a pair of pants. In shop, we learned to use power tools that the average homeowner will never own, but didn't learn things like basic household repairs.
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Old 02-07-2024, 09:58 AM
 
6,922 posts, read 6,979,930 times
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My cynical side says that personal finance is not taught because schools want us to make naive, uninformed decisions. My high school told us to go to the most expensive college that we can get into, and to not worry about affording it, and that loans are basically free money, and that no college that offers scholarships are worth attending. They want people to attend elite colleges since that's how people judge high schools. And, they want people to make bad decisions and to be in debt so that we are beholden to employers.
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Old 02-07-2024, 10:00 AM
 
37,407 posts, read 45,595,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
-High schools not offering many classes on the trades, driver's ed, or ANY skills on money management
-No classes on impulse control, self-discipline, conflict resolution, etc.
-University not offering job training or white-collar apprenticeships, forcing graduates into the catch-22 involving jobs and job experience (I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about).

Why?

Serious question.
Our high schools here do have driver's ed. They also offer personal finance, life planning, Child Development and Parenting, and many other offerings in their Career and technical education curriculum.

The "impulse control, self discipline, etc" is not something that we need to spend taxpayer money on as far as I'm concerned. Some things need to be learned off school grounds.

I'd rather they just actually teach MATH. Kids are graduating with pitiful math skills today.
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Old 02-07-2024, 10:20 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 14,088,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
Our high schools here do have driver's ed. They also offer personal finance, life planning, Child Development and Parenting, and many other offerings in their Career and technical education curriculum.

The "impulse control, self discipline, etc" is not something that we need to spend taxpayer money on as far as I'm concerned. Some things need to be learned off school grounds.

I'd rather they just actually teach MATH. Kids are graduating with pitiful math skills today.
I think this is the issue. A school day is only six or seven hours long. Perhaps, less with time for lunch and breaks between classes. Annual standardized testing usually takes up a few days as well. A school year is perhaps 180 days. If a child attends all the years of public education (and a number drop out) they do so for twelve years. I don't want to get off subject, but I think adolescence and development render some entire grades pretty useless for some students. For example, I hated ninth grade. I wasn't a huge fan of 12th grade (high school senior year either).

That still seems like a long time. However, in reality there is only so much teaching that can be crammed into that period of time. All kinds of choices need to be made. How many of those hours do we use to focus on math and English? How much time should be allotted for physical fitness or PE? Do we reduce history to one semester or do we teach it for a full year? Do we spend more time emphasizing music and the fine arts?

More time for one subject means less time for another. Some students will gain from that. Others will probably lose.

I frequently hear from people who tell me that a school curriculum is deficient in this respect or in that respect. I try to remind them that there are time limitations on what can be taught. School teachers and administrators are human and can only do so much.
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Old 02-07-2024, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32519
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Except it's only true in some places but not others. For example, our local high school dropped Home Ec and didn't rename it to something else. They dropped it completely and got rid of the teachers who were teaching it. Same thing if we look at their "Career and Technical Education" -- most of the programs offered under it are "pre - college something" (IE prelaw, pre-engineering, pre-STEM, etc). Only a couple are actually what we would have called vocational historically (welding & cosmetology). And the catch is, those aren't actually taught at the high school. Instead, students in those have to drive two counties over to the nearest tech school to take those courses. No high school in the county has a Vo-Tech program.

One of the funniest classes in Career & Technical Education is the one to prepare for post secondary education, focusing on "The learner will explore postsecondary options and financial aid available. The learner will develop an understanding of the ACT and best practices for taking the ACT, The learner will practice content." Taken right out of the school handbook.
One of the things some of you folks need to figure out is:

Do you want:
a. local control of schools
b. state control of schools
c. federal control of schools

You can't preach local control and then complain when you get local control.
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Old 02-07-2024, 10:34 AM
 
Location: southwestern PA
22,226 posts, read 47,150,952 times
Reputation: 47078
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
With the passage of Senate Bill 843 last December, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania became the 25th state to guarantee a standalone personal finance course for high school students.

Pennsylvania Becomes 25th State to Guarantee a Personal Finance Course for High School Students

Many schools already had an elective in financial literacy or it was covered in another class such as Family and Consumer Science (FACS).

Most schools in PA have driver's education. It used to be offered either in the summer or as a class during the school year. Most schools that offer it, now provide it after school. All three of my children took it in school.

All of the school districts in my area either have their own Career and Technology Center (CTC) or partner with other school districts. Students go to the CTC for half a day and spend the other half at their own high school. Many schools also offer limited shop classes in both their middle and high school.
Yep!
Some states still care about what is taught in their schools.
If yours doesn't, that is on you and your fellow citizens!
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Old 02-07-2024, 10:36 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,247 posts, read 10,491,670 times
Reputation: 12539
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
My cynical side says that personal finance is not taught because schools want us to make naive, uninformed decisions. My high school told us to go to the most expensive college that we can get into, and to not worry about affording it, and that loans are basically free money, and that no college that offers scholarships are worth attending. They want people to attend elite colleges since that's how people judge high schools. And, they want people to make bad decisions and to be in debt so that we are beholden to employers.
I would say the biggest reason that personal finance/financial literacy is not taught in schools is it doesn't fit into traditional educational categories such as science, English, math, social studies, health & PE, etc. This means you don't have someone who is certified or qualified to teach the class. In the cases where I have seen that this class exists, it was typically given to a FACS or business teacher. I doubt many of them had experience teaching about budgeting, saving, credit management, investing, loans and interest rates.
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