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Old 02-07-2024, 11:10 AM
 
6,922 posts, read 6,978,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
I would say the biggest reason that personal finance/financial literacy is not taught in schools is it doesn't fit into traditional educational categories such as science, English, math, social studies, health & PE, etc. This means you don't have someone who is certified or qualified to teach the class. In the cases where I have seen that this class exists, it was typically given to a FACS or business teacher. I doubt many of them had experience teaching about budgeting, saving, credit management, investing, loans and interest rates.
Yes, definitely not where I live, where teachers get high pay and top benefits and are completely insulated from everything you listed above. But in areas where teachers are paid less, one would think that they would need those skills to survive, just like the rest of us.

One semi-useful class we had to take was called participation in government. But one assignment was to write a letter to the editor asking for social security to be eliminated. The teacher said he doesn't need it because he will have his pension and cheap health insurance. At the time, I naively assumed that everybody got a pension and cheap health insurance for life.
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Old 02-07-2024, 11:15 AM
 
6,922 posts, read 6,978,696 times
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The most bizarre assignment we had to do in home ec class: we had to decide who to hire at a men's clothing store. There were 5 candidates, all young men. The only physical characteristics we were given for each of the candidates was their height and weight. Basically all of the girls picked Ken, the tallest candidate, even though he dropped out of high school and had a criminal record. The girls kept saying "Ken is hot", even though there was no picture of him, and we knew nothing about his appearance other than his height and weight. The teacher told the girls that looks should not be a factor. However, I was told that the choice I picked (don't remember his name) was wrong because he was not good looking enough (remember, there were no pictures, just height and weight). I admit that my answer was wrong for other reasons. But if the girls were all told that looks should not be a factor, why was I marked wrong for choosing somebody who was not good looking enough? And I have no idea what it had to do with home ec.
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Old 02-07-2024, 11:20 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,548 posts, read 57,460,499 times
Reputation: 45902
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
-High schools not offering many classes on the trades, driver's ed, or ANY skills on money management
-No classes on impulse control, self-discipline, conflict resolution, etc.
-University not offering job training or white-collar apprenticeships, forcing graduates into the catch-22 involving jobs and job experience (I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about).

Why?

Serious question
.
They can't.

What do educators trained by educator trainers know about Trades, Skills, Money Management, Psycholgic crisis managment, or white collar Job training?

What's their (particular School) objective and how are they measured for performance?

None-of-the-above!

Barking up the wrong tree. A cat, can't be a dog. (We (USA) have a LOT of dogs.) HC, Education, Politics, Drug and homeless crisis, border crisis... But it's a great opportunity for those with initiative and incentive (and an adequate education to make it possible) to succeed. How mainy new 'successful' businesses / employers in your neighborhood have come from the product of your local public schools?

Look around at who is being successful (more than 10 yrs).

It's painfully obvious. (Especially to those of us having to hire incompetent and uncapable employees), or who are mentoring new businesses (immigrants), .
I can't think of a worse situation, UNLESS the schools were attempting to create capable employees, while being totally clueless to the need.

They don't know how, it's not their expertise or expectation.

Now, schools actually churning out graduates who can read, write, communicate, and do math... What a concept!!!
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Old 02-07-2024, 11:33 AM
 
12,577 posts, read 8,805,520 times
Reputation: 34380
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
One of the things some of you folks need to figure out is:

Do you want:
a. local control of schools
b. state control of schools
c. federal control of schools

You can't preach local control and then complain when you get local control.
Who are "you folks?"

And what does any of that have anything to do with the irony of calling a class on financial aid and the ACT "Career and Technical Education?"
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Old 02-07-2024, 11:49 AM
 
17,466 posts, read 17,273,983 times
Reputation: 25436
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
When I first became a vice-principal in our middle school 1988), we had 10 classes of "teen living", which was home ec. semester elective. Fifteen years later we had 3 classes of "teen living". So we had gone from 2 full-time home ec teachers down to a part timer. Most other electives had grown and stayed about the same. (And by the way, room use was a big factor in an overcrowded school, and home ec required a full kitchen, a lecture room, a living room, and a sewing room).

The home ec teacher came to complain about what 'we' were doing to her course. There was no 'we' -- it was parent and student choice. And I said, "Do you realize that for all practical purposes you are teaching the same course they taught when I was in high school in the late 1960s?" And she said, "That's not true. We have microwave ovens now!" "And how many days does it take to teach kids how to use a microwave oven?"

An elective should be just that -- an elective. And schools shouldn't be deciding which electives students and parents elect. Do I wish I could sew a button on a shirt? I sure do. Do I think I should have been forced to learn that in school...with a system hiring a full-time teacher to teach me that? No, I do not.
You seem to be coming across as condescending in your view of these courses. Home economics is more than sewing. There are some cooking basics people should know that are taught in such classes. I’ve known young people today who don’t know how to cook an egg (boil, fry, nor scramble). If it isn’t done in a microwave, they’re terrified not knowing what to do. There are simple home made meals one can prepare as a teenager that is cheaper and far healthier than frozen or instant meals and such lessons should include the financial and health benefits of such cooking. In some countries their schools have such lessons and young children learn about healthy eating and food preparation and they tend to have healthier students. Learning about home maintenance is more than tools and how to use them. It’s also about safe cleaning methods. Home cleaning is about hygiene but improper cleaning methods can be deadly dangerous such as mixing certain cleaning agents. It’s also about home safety such as electrical safety, fire safety, and other issues. By eliminating such programs you’re sending out adults not ready for a world independent of their parents.
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Old 02-07-2024, 12:06 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,645 posts, read 17,237,632 times
Reputation: 34149
Schools do a lot more now than just teach academics.
They are taking over some things that parents used to do...obvious one is feeding kids breakfast, lunch, snack and in some places dinner.
In NYC they take the teenage girls to PP to get IUD's.
So just give it time.

But I would imagine teachers would also need to be trained in social work skills which now is left with the counselors.
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Old 02-07-2024, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,201 posts, read 14,421,540 times
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This isn't a new problem. The high schools that I went to growing up (4 different ones, in the 90s) They did have Driver's Ed, so that was good. But we learned a lot of things that I did not think were useful, and there were things that I thought should be required to learn that were either elective or not taught at all.

In 3 out of 4 of the schools, art class was just an easy A. They taught very basic color mixing and shading and introduced us to some art mediums we might not get a chance to use otherwise. The fourth school was in an affluent suburb of Cincinnati and had kids who might be headed into the Art Academy, so it was advanced portfolio prep, and it was actually hard. What I wish any art courses would teach? How to market your creative work and protect your rights to it.

Of course, a public education system that is only trying to churn out obedient drones will try to eliminate arts and music altogether. Why not, when we can just replace human creativity with AI, I guess? Get the art without bothering with the care and feeding of an artist. I can't help but think that we're killing the soul of our species with that, but whatever.

Things I wished that the public school system had taught from kindergarten on...how to speak Spanish and ASL. It's easier to learn languages when you are little. In Home Ec, they had us using a sewing machine to create a pillow and a sweatshirt from patterns. I did not need that information. I did need more about food safety (cross contamination) and proper methods to clean things, and how to safely put out a grease fire on the stovetop - hell, best methods to put out different kinds of fires would have been great overall. Nowadays I think that they should have as an overall theme across many classes, "How best to use internet tools to find good information." Because you can find any recipe, repair instructions for tons of things, and info on subjects that you might forget but need one day...but you have to be able to parse the good info from the bad. I absolutely never needed to dissect an earthworm or a frog. Never. Zero value. Everything I needed to know about anatomy can be taught adequately with diagrams and books.

I took a Business Law class in high school. I remember that the only useful thing I got out of it was validation that I could rip off Columbia House with impunity since they knew they were doing business with a minor and minors cannot be held to contracts. Twelve CDs for a penny! Stickin' it to the man! lol

A class with surprising usefulness - Drama class. The teacher's main goal was to make us do silly things in front of each other until we stopped being self conscious about speaking in front of an audience. The vocal warmups with us all making weird faces, and she made us learn the Time Warp from Rocky Horror. The whole point is, sure, you're ridiculous, and guess what, so is everyone else, and nobody cares and it's fine and you didn't die. BOY did I try to figure out how to push that sentiment at my kids and BOY did they resist learning it from me.

I think that there is a natural tendency towards being awkward and self conscious inherent in adolescence. And for those of us who participated in that class, it did not become enshrined as "social anxiety"...a whole reason to stop even trying to interact with other human beings. I believe that for almost anyone, this anxiety can be defeated, if one has the right exercises to overcome it and if one is motivated to try. It's like exposure therapy for a proto-phobia.

I did not learn budgeting, taxes, how to write a check, etc. I wish I had. I would hope and wish that intense training on MS Office applications would be required in high school now, but I'm not sure that it is. Especially Excel. You can do so much with that. It wouldn't have made sense when I was in school, most people didn't even have a computer in the home then.

And in Sex Ed, there was a conspicuously missing word back when I was in school..."consent." I really hope that's changed, but I am not holding my breath. As an adult, I was part of a communication class taught through a community org one time, and they did an interesting exercise that I think would be beneficial to young people...setting and respecting boundaries. Doesn't need to be a whole class, just an exercise. It's having people practice saying "no" and accepting being told no with grace. Some struggle more with one, or the other, but everyone needs to be able to do both. Fluently.
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Old 02-07-2024, 01:33 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,247 posts, read 10,487,989 times
Reputation: 12539
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Yes, definitely not where I live, where teachers get high pay and top benefits and are completely insulated from everything you listed above. But in areas where teachers are paid less, one would think that they would need those skills to survive, just like the rest of us.

One semi-useful class we had to take was called participation in government. But one assignment was to write a letter to the editor asking for social security to be eliminated. The teacher said he doesn't need it because he will have his pension and cheap health insurance. At the time, I naively assumed that everybody got a pension and cheap health insurance for life.
It is one thing to have some understanding of financial issues. It takes some research to be able to teach all aspects of financial literacy such as IRAs, Roth IRAs, health, vehicle, and homeowners insurance, credit scores, buying a house, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Schools do a lot more now than just teach academics.
They are taking over some things that parents used to do...obvious one is feeding kids breakfast, lunch, snack and in some places dinner.
In NYC they take the teenage girls to PP to get IUD's.
So just give it time.

But I would imagine teachers would also need to be trained in social work skills which now is left with the counselors.
Good point! Look at the situation with the mother who was convicted of manslaughter because her son murdered four students at a high school in Michigan. I saw an interview yesterday with a couple of the parents and they wanted to sue the school. How much social responsibility should schools have for identifying students with mental health issues when the parents are not assuming their parental responsibility?
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Old 02-07-2024, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32519
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
You seem to be coming across as condescending in your view of these courses. Home economics is more than sewing. There are some cooking basics people should know that are taught in such classes. I’ve known young people today who don’t know how to cook an egg (boil, fry, nor scramble). If it isn’t done in a microwave, they’re terrified not knowing what to do. There are simple home made meals one can prepare as a teenager that is cheaper and far healthier than frozen or instant meals and such lessons should include the financial and health benefits of such cooking. In some countries their schools have such lessons and young children learn about healthy eating and food preparation and they tend to have healthier students. Learning about home maintenance is more than tools and how to use them. It’s also about safe cleaning methods. Home cleaning is about hygiene but improper cleaning methods can be deadly dangerous such as mixing certain cleaning agents. It’s also about home safety such as electrical safety, fire safety, and other issues. By eliminating such programs you’re sending out adults not ready for a world independent of their parents.
Each year the teachers in a particular elective wrote -- with the help of their central office supervisors -- a brief synopsis of what was included with their classes. Exactly what they wrote appeared in our course selection guide. I didn't advocate for or against any particular elective. It didn't matter to me what electives students/parents elected to take. I'd hire whatever number of teachers was needed. But on the night when parents and their kids would come to meet electives teachers, most parents and kids simply walked right on past the home ec suite. That was their choice.

Don't blame me for what home ec teachers do or don't teach.
Don't blame me for what they include or don't include in their curriculum.
Don't blame me if they couldn't get students and parents interested in their classes.
Those teachers spoke for their own courses...and apparently not very well.
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Old 02-07-2024, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
16,086 posts, read 10,236,467 times
Reputation: 27154
It would be nice if gym class took a day or 2 and taught basic first aide.
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