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Old 08-25-2013, 07:28 PM
 
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OK will some will probably dismiss this as "left-wing" but this is a pretty sober analysis (as it challenges both the liberal defense of mediocrity but also right-wing union-bashing and calls for firing teachers and charter schools etc.):

We could do better than this

And seeing that people have no problem relying on the Fraser Institute for Canadian school rankings...
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
No but it is far less pronounced.

How do you know?
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:49 PM
 
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Read the OECD report, for starters.
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
Read the OECD report, for starters.
I just did.

One thing that stood out was Canada's higher level of educating immigrant children. The report mentions why - and it makes perfect sense. Canada's immigrants are in general, high functioning (Asia, India, Pakistan) whereas many immigrants to the US are low functioning folks from south of the US border.

So, what I'm taking away is Canada's education "machine" is really no better than the US machine but rather it processes higher quality students in the first place.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:00 PM
 
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Also look at the "resilience share" in the other link. Canada comes out well ahead.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:10 PM
 
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And read the report more carefully. It also attributes the success of education reform in Ontario to more equalized funding, more selectivity in teaching recruitment, more professional respect autonomy and respect for teachers, a more decent welfare state, province-wide curricula, etc.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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I'm just talking out loud here...I went to school in Canada in an area with a large ESL presence. I now live in the US, and have kids in school. My Canadian schooling was poor, even very poor in my opinion. The ESL were kept separate with their own teachers and classes and were only allowed to join the masses once they mastered the language. This part I think was good; they got a much better education that way. I knew many families who hosted ESL students and found it to be a rewarding experience.

Most friends I grew up with in Canada are now married and have children. Few of them went to college or even gave it much thought. It seemed the norm to graduate from HS and find a job. Many of the females I grew up with are now stay-at-home moms or have a work schedule that allows them to spend most of their time with the kids. My best friend and I were married very young and had kids right away. Her kids are teens the same ages as mine. When we visited a few months ago, I asked them where they wanted to go to college. They had no idea, never thought about it. This surprised me because they go to private school and one of them is a senior. This is not a poor demographic and we are also talking about a major metropolitan city. I do know many people who went to college after spending some years at a non-degree trade.

Compare this to where I live in the US. We live in an area where it is the exception not to go to college. It is somewhat rural and for the population there are a large number of private schools serving whatever needs you have - superior athletics, superior academics, a general track graduation in a controlled environment, etc. My kids go to private school and their education far exceeds the private school education of my Canadian friends. Also, it is unusual to see stay at home moms. My only point here is they too went to college and have careers.

From my personal experience, which I realize is narrow because I am just one person, I see differences between the US and Canada beyond just education. The culture is different, their goals are different, the constant message that college is a must is different, and perhaps the priorities are different.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Both coasts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdarocks View Post
I'm just talking out loud here...I went to school in Canada in an area with a large ESL presence. I now live in the US, and have kids in school. My Canadian schooling was poor, even very poor in my opinion. The ESL were kept separate with their own teachers and classes and were only allowed to join the masses once they mastered the language. This part I think was good; they got a much better education that way. I knew many families who hosted ESL students and found it to be a rewarding experience.

Most friends I grew up with in Canada are now married and have children. Few of them went to college or even gave it much thought. It seemed the norm to graduate from HS and find a job. Many of the females I grew up with are now stay-at-home moms or have a work schedule that allows them to spend most of their time with the kids. My best friend and I were married very young and had kids right away. Her kids are teens the same ages as mine. When we visited a few months ago, I asked them where they wanted to go to college. They had no idea, never thought about it. This surprised me because they go to private school and one of them is a senior. This is not a poor demographic and we are also talking about a major metropolitan city. I do know many people who went to college after spending some years at a non-degree trade.

Compare this to where I live in the US. We live in an area where it is the exception not to go to college. It is somewhat rural and for the population there are a large number of private schools serving whatever needs you have - superior athletics, superior academics, a general track graduation in a controlled environment, etc. My kids go to private school and their education far exceeds the private school education of my Canadian friends. Also, it is unusual to see stay at home moms. My only point here is they too went to college and have careers.

From my personal experience, which I realize is narrow because I am just one person, I see differences between the US and Canada beyond just education. The culture is different, their goals are different, the constant message that college is a must is different, and perhaps the priorities are different.
which Canadian city is this, and which US city are you in now?
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:47 AM
 
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Then: Vancouver. Now: about 90 mins out of Atlanta.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Both coasts
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Originally Posted by Cdarocks View Post
Then: Vancouver. Now: about 90 mins out of Atlanta.
I agree there's more of that Keep-up-with-the-Joneses attitude in general in the US than Canada (manifest itself with obsession of which suburbs to live in that have the best schools etc etc), but think you're experience will be very different if you were in inner-city Atlanta

interesting story of yours though
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