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That's very sad that in the last 8 years we have started labeling our children with the same word one would use for the 'people' involved with 9/11. It seems that there is a bigger problem here besides your nephews situation. Personally, shouldn't people be shocked and appalled? I just don't see what they fixed by expelling your nephew. Why don't they just go ahead and fire the guidance counselor, because apparently there's no use for him or her. When I was in elementary school, the policy's seemed to be much less barbaric. Anyway, I fear for what it's going to be like in 10 years when my children are in school.
I definitely get the whole CYA mentality of schools nowadays given our lust for courtroom drama and cash and how much damage a little negative publicity can do to a school and it's whole community. I guess I'm just looking at this little boy and my own kids and wondering what in the world we're supposed to teach them to say/do when they feel someone is picking on them. "Gee, that makes me sad, will you please refrain from hurting my feelings?" Come on now.
It used to be social suicide to tell the teacher, but now one tattle, no matter how justified, can ruin another kid's whole life! That's a lot of pressure for a kid to make a decision under, and a lot of power to give a kid with a hidden agenda.
Even without this issue his previous internet freedom was clearly a problem that went under the radar. That's been rectified, but now he'll be going to a school where discipline issues are frequent and serious. Isn't that a bit like putting a first-time bad check writer in a maximum security prison?
Everyone is concerned, and he gets what he did and what's going on, but I can't say any of us sees the fairness in it at all. Specifically he can't understand how he could get the exact same punishment as someone who attacks a teacher.
If the girl was scared, and they were given an opportunity at conflict resolution and that failed, then I'd be much more understanding of the school's decision. I don't know that she wasn't, I hope she wasn't, but I know no other solution was tried except to kick him out.
How does that work? Seems to me the school is equally open to a lawsuit from the son's parents.
The boy's parents can try a suit against the school's policy but that is a much harder case to win, whereas suing the school over one incident in which they did not follow their own policy is much more likely to win.
One variable here is how well the school promotes and communicates its policy. Perhaps you could make a case that the policy is not clearly defined or reinforced, though in this case, none of us know the answer.
Kids today have to learn to be careful of everything they say! What they say today can come back to bite them! Times have changed drastically since we were kids.
I worked at a school for 21 years and when I first started, the kids were happy, so much fun and such a delight to be around. Over the years I worked there, they changed from happy, carefree, fun loving students to angry, smart mouthed, hateful little snots. Going to work had changed from a joy to dread. That is when I quit. We had to be so darn careful what we said to them that it was like walking on egg shells all day. I can tell you, between the mid 70's and mid 90's, the kids attitudes changed. Right after I gave it up is when the school shooting started.
We learned to be extra careful what we said to them, now it is their turn to watch what they say. We took responsiability for what we said and how we said it, now it is THEIR turn to do the same or pay the consequences and it is the parents job to teach their own kids to think before they speak and be extra careful of what comes out of their mouths.
I worked at a school for 21 years and when I first started, the kids were happy, so much fun and such a delight to be around. Over the years I worked there, they changed from happy, carefree, fun loving students to angry, smart mouthed, hateful little snots. Going to work had changed from a joy to dread. That is when I quit. We had to be so darn careful what we said to them that it was like walking on egg shells all day. I can tell you, between the mid 70's and mid 90's, the kids attitudes changed. Right after I gave it up is when the school shooting started.
My friend's mom has been a teacher for about 25 years or so and she has said about the same thing. She can not wait for retirement.
I believe the policy is too stringent. If there were any warnings by teachers or administrators, first, that might be different than just telling the kid he no longer is a student.
aren't ALL children below the age of 18 really terrorists????????????
Nope, just potential ones.
This was interesting enough to me that I called my 13 yo daughter in to ask a few questions. According to her, her school has never spoken with them about the zero tolerance policy or told them what they can or can't say. She started in October though. One boy has been heard to say things to other kids such as "I could hurt you really, really bad," in a laughing tone of voice and has never gotten in trouble that she knows of. She was incredulous that anyone could be expelled for saying "or else", and frankly, so am I, since kids have been saying things like that since the beginning of time. Our school district is a tiny one in a big city and in a very safe neighborhood, but I guess Columbine parents thought they were safe too. I am amazed that the boy at our school has gotten away with saying he could hurt someone, knowing how things are nowadays, and I think they should at least talk to the boy and tell him to watch his mouth, because someone could decide to pursue that one. I wish all the best for you and your nephew--the world has gotten too crazy by far, and I'm just sorry that the kids are paying for our stupidity.
I don't know if this should be here or in parenting, but I'm trying to see how prevalent this is, and if you guys think it's OK.
Here's the deal -
I have an incredibly bright, musically gifted (offered 1st chair on 4 instruments), athletic (all-star in two sports every year), handsome, charismatic nephew in a top magnet program in middle school. The last week of school, one of the many girls who like him complained to the school that he was "harassing" her online. He was expelled from school 3 days before Summer vacation.
She was upset that he was giving his attention to another girl, and was using the social networking site to say mean things about that girl to my nephew. When he basically told her to shut up and leave them alone "or else" (and a few other choice words like "you're stupid" and other typical kid things), she made the complaint.
Neither kid is old enough to even have these accounts on these sites. They never used school time or school computers to access them. He was expelled because of their "no tolerance" policy regarding "terroristic threats". She admitted he'd never said anything threatening to her at school, just what I mentioned above online. And no, his parents didn't know he had a page; they're not computer-savvy (well, they weren't before this).
He was shocked and heartbroken sitting in the principals office listening to these labels applied to him and being told he was kicked out. Is this really how all these post-Columbine policies were intended to be interpreted? I know I'm totally biased, but it doesn't seem like this action is keeping with the spirit of the law.
Is my little nephew a terrorist?
Demand that the school define for you, "terroristic threats."
From this definition, it looks like hearsay is good enough to qualify as a "terroristic threat." It's ridiculous. Plus, they cannot prove intent.
Last edited by Brian.Pearson; 06-24-2008 at 05:43 AM..
Reason: added material
I would have to see the messages sent to and from the three before answering. There is not enough information available to make a sure decision.
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