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as the plumber has the option to go back and get a BA/BS.
Its not so simple. Although, the plumber can go back to school he will have limited options. Most good universities don't allow non-standard matriculations and many schools don't deal with transfers from community college. This is not to mention that going to a community college can put you at a great disadvantage in many cases (In particular with degrees in science, computers etc, or if you want to go to graduate school).
So, although its possible to go back to school your options are greatly restricted.
Anyhow, the schools make little to no effort to tell students about particular careers. The power of math!...what power? They never really tell you. The teachers generally don't know either...why would why? Many haven't even stepped foot in industry. The schools should spend much more time on career discovery, I only wish someone was able to give good advice when I was in school.
The education system is built to keep the poor poor and the wealthy wealthy.
Oh - I also disagree about the options for the BA/BS vs. plumber, as the plumber has the option to go back and get a BA/BS. The option has not disappeared. Similarly, the degree recipient could go become a plumber.
All true, but I'm talking about what is, not what could be. Someone with a batchelor's degree has more options than someone w/o a high school diploma in the job market. I would never encourage/advise someone not to finish high school. Vo-tech programs in the high schools award a diploma as well as provide vocational training. So we have that option now, in most school districts.
In re: the the community college issue, in Colorado, the state colleges must take certain credits from the community colleges. There is a list of acceptable courses, mainly the general ed type courses that everyone has to take.
Its not so simple. Although, the plumber can go back to school he will have limited options. Most good universities don't allow non-standard matriculations and many schools don't deal with transfers from community college. This is not to mention that going to a community college can put you at a great disadvantage in many cases (In particular with degrees in science, computers etc, or if you want to go to graduate school).
So, although its possible to go back to school your options are greatly restricted.
I have no idea what you are talking about here.
Once again, I feel compelled to wonder what you mean by "good universities," and if you mean "universities highly ranked by US News and World Reports," then just say that instead of the blandishment of "good."
Regardless, where do you get the idea that "most good universities don't allow non-standard matriculations?!" Or, perhaps the problem is that I don't understand what you mean by "non-standard."
I was assuming, given the framework of my comments that you meant "older students' matriculation," which they most certainly do! If it isn't that, then 1) what did you mean and 2) why bring it up as a response to me?
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many schools don't deal with transfers from community college
Many?
Do you mean "do not grant full credit for community college courses," perhaps? Otherwise, again, I think you are dead wrong.
A few colleges don't take transfers at all. And many smaller colleges take very few. I know of ZERO colleges that explicitly exclude community college transfers.
But, more importantly, WTF does this have to do with my point? Whether you are right about CC transfers or not, the same facts would apply to a person going to a CC straight after high school or 20 years later!
Yes, medical schools may ignore or discount community college courses, though they are the worst about it.
Otherwise, I disagree totally with "great disadvantage in many cases (In particular with degrees in science, computers etc." Where and how you finish your last two years is far more important than if you spent the first two years at a CC.
But, again, these are the same no matter the age of the person in the community college program!
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Originally Posted by Humanoid
I only wish someone was able to give good advice when I was in school.
The education system is built to keep the poor poor and the wealthy wealthy.
I'm sorry that your school let you down and you didn't know to seek other career advice resources.
As for your final comment, if it were intentional, it would hardly be so effective at it!
Its not so simple. Although, the plumber can go back to school he will have limited options. Most good universities don't allow non-standard matriculations and many schools don't deal with transfers from community college. This is not to mention that going to a community college can put you at a great disadvantage in many cases (In particular with degrees in science, computers etc, or if you want to go to graduate school).
I'm really confused too. I got my Associates from a community college and then transferred directly to an Ivy league university where I graduated in the top 10% of my class. The Ivy League schools accepted all of my CC credits. Then I went to a top graduate school. All of this in the sciences.
Community college snobbery really really disgusts me. Its really an excellent option. The teaching is better than at most 4 year Research 1 institutions. It's affordable and student learning centered.
Yes, strangely, some schools such as the University of Colorado will accept credits from a CC more readily than they will accept them from another 4 yr college. That happened to my daughter.
I'm really confused too. I got my Associates from a community college and then transferred directly to an Ivy league university where I graduated in the top 10% of my class. The Ivy League schools accepted all of my CC credits. Then I went to a top graduate school. All of this in the sciences.
Community college snobbery really really disgusts me. Its really an excellent option. The teaching is better than at most 4 year Research 1 institutions. It's affordable and student learning centered.
Thanks for the corroboration!
I'll note that the difference you note in teaching quality is hardly a constant, in either case, and also that often even when the teaching is better, the courses may not be as challenging.
I'll say "often" rather than "more often than not" or merely "sometimes," because I don't really know which way the balance goes, overall.
I was assuming, given the framework of my comments that you meant "older students' matriculation," which they most certainly do!
They most certainly don't in many cases. Obviously each university has a different policy, but in general the good universities don't allow it where as the local state school often does. And yes, by "good" I'm primarily referring to rankings. The rankings pretty accurately pick up which universities are good, of course I'm sure you'll right an hour long post about it.
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the same facts would apply to a person going to a CC straight after high school or 20 years later!
The old student has two options 1.) Going to a CC and transferring, 2.) Trying to matriculate directly into an university. Both options are going to be limiting to the student. My point is simply that for the plumber, some doors are closed and others are much harder to get open than they would have been otherwise.
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I'm really confused too.
What is there to be confused about exactly? There are many schools that don't allow community college transfers or only allow them as space is available (that is from freshman/Sophomore drop outs). Which Ivy League are you talking about? Some of the Ivy Leagues will allow transfers, but the space is very limiting and well...they are going to pick kids from better schools first.
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Community college snobbery really really disgusts me. Its really an excellent option.
I think its great the community colleges exist, for some its the only option either due to finances or past choices. It essentially allows people to get a "fresh start". But, at least to me this doesn't translate into being an "excellent option", its only excellent for those that have no longer options. The teaching is better, how did you determine that?
Anyhow, the teaching isn't the only issue either. At research university you can get involved in a number of things that don't exist on community college campuses, not only that you have much longer to form important relationships.
Anyhow, I wouldn't recommend anybody go to a community college unless they have to.
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you didn't know to seek other career advice resources.
Let me ask you, what other career advice resources? If your parents don't know anything and the people in the school are incompetent where do you go? This is not to mention that most students aren't going to search the global for good advice.
I wanted to add that work skills need to be taught well, so not just one class, but two classes every year with specifics on work skills and how to apply it in the work force.
I wanted to add that work skills need to be taught well, so not just one class, but two classes every year with specifics on work skills and how to apply it in the work force.
I'm not sure you can really "teach" things like good work ethic, etc. The schools are expected to do so much parenting now, I'd hate for them to have to add "work skills" to the curriculum in high school.
You can teach anything. If you want a better America it is going to have to start with the schools....plain and simple .
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Originally Posted by Katiana
I'm not sure you can really "teach" things like good work ethic, etc. The schools are expected to do so much parenting now, I'd hate for them to have to add "work skills" to the curriculum in high school.
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