Another post: since when is it almost "required" for teachers to be parents to their students.... (public school, doctor)

[Mrs.Bewitched]

I know that throughout the teaching years, teachers do become just like parents. Sometimes, teachers are the only parents a child has...or are actually "better" parents than the child's own. People know, or most know, that teachers do teach things that should be taught at home- like manners, social skills, how to wipe a nose, tie a shoe, and so on.


However, at a specific school (no names)....they just did a survey for the parents. The parents got to list their priorities. I forget exactly what was on that list.

However, with it being a school survey....academics, was not at the top. I don't remember if it was even 2nd.

I forget the exact title that was the winner of the majority vote, but it dealt with: teaching the children manners, and other similar character traits.

Hello? I thought that was something a parent focuses on....basically from birth. Please, thank you, yes thank you, no thank you, may I.....don't lie, tell the truth, be patient, respect others...................

Why is that a teacher's responsibility? Of course teachers implement it; most times they have to because the children come to school without those traits. But now parents are requesting that teachers teach that, above academics.

I am asking why it is being allowed that some part of the parent's responsibility- IMHO, is now being delegated as an extra item/topic that the teachers have to be responsible for (were doing it anyway but now it is more delegated)...above academics????? Why at all?

[TouchOfWhimsy]

A few reasons that I can think of:

1. Parents are not home to parent. Mom and Dad both work from early in the morning until dinnertime. Children are in before school care/school/after school care all day long, 5 days per week. On weekends, they are at soccer practice, being babysat by Grandma (or a babysitter) so Mom and Dad can have some "adult time," etc. Before they're old enough to go to school, they're in daycare for 10+ hours per day. So parents have very limited time when their children are awake in order to model appropriate behavior and train in manners, etc.

2. Parents have their own authority undermined all. the. time. Doctors, teachers, nurses, Dr. Phil, the next door neighbor, strangers on a message board... they all have input on how one raises their child. If a parent wants to sleep with their baby, they're told by the nurse in the hospital that the baby could die of suffocation. If a parent wants to delay shots, they're warned by the doctor that they could die of Hepatitis B tomorrow. If a child is going through a bratty phase at age 4, Mom's friends have all of the answers, which they may have heard on a talk show. Doctors are qualified to make medical decisions, and parents are not. Teachers are qualified to teach, and parents are not. We have given away our authority to people who simply cannot have our individual child's best interest in mind... so parents feel inept and unable to teach even simple things like manners.

3. Lack of parental manners and low standards of behavior. Have you been out and about at all recently? Have you witnessed the behavior of full grown adults, some of whom have children? It's scary. Apparently their parents never taught THEM manners and how to behave, so how can they teach their children?

[Pandamonium]

My question is, if your not going to name the school, what ethnic background are the majority of the students? Manners may very well be considered how to assimilate into the American culture.

Education may be a priority if the majority of the students are white. I am not stating that white people or even Americans are the only culture to believe that education is a priority. American white children have a tendency to believe that the name of the game is to grow up and leave the home immediately after graduation and become independent and separate of family. If the majority of the students are from other cultures (or even low income) the emphasis may be on "good". Education is not considered a priority in many cultures. Family might rate higher. Further, if one is not highly educated and past educational experiences have been negative-how, pray tell, are they to believe in it?

Lastly, in no way shape or form would I consider a teacher even a part time parent of my child. Frankly, I do not believe they are qualified to be the parent of my child. Especially, if they are continuously distracted by 30 other children.

I live in an area where a child could be suspended or disciplined and rather than contact the parent over the phone,they mail it. This means that one cannot parent a child. One cannot support the decision of the school. That decision has already been made. There are parents that will literally beg to be contacted if their child causes the slightest problem. Then someone stands back, especially in this area, and states the education system has become the parent. I don't think so.

Now, there are children that do not know there is a difference between Kleenex and toilet paper. They have never heard of a difference between play clothes and school clothes. They believe the only "show" is a movie.

[TouchOfWhimsy]

Originally Posted by Pandamonium

Now, there are children that do not know there is a difference between Kleenex and toilet paper. They have never heard of a difference between play clothes and school clothes. They believe the only "show" is a movie.

What does this mean? That a child who uses TP to blow their nose and doesn't watch TV at home needs to learn manners? Or is obviously from a different culture?

[Pandamonium]

Dang it, for all those clarification edits and I still wasn't clear.

None of the above, I am stating that this is about diversity. The criteria that is used does not often give room for that diversity and there is a very real need to remember that someone elses world view may be vastly different than what we know. A one size fits all criteria does not work. What many take for granted and may hold up as the be all to end all is not necessarily true.

[FarNorthDallas]

At my son's private school they teach manners and social skills - absolutely. There are situations at a school that you don't always have at home, like how to accept an award on stage. You wait, shake hands, say thank you, get in your spot, stand towards the audience with your award displayed. They also teach them how to behave as audience members - in chairs. (I have never seen the kids sitting on the floor, like what the public school had the kids do at assemblies with teachers towering over them.)

They teach them how to make introductions, how to be a proper host at grandparents day, I mean these are manners and social graces, too. Manners means a lot more than Please and Thank you. And sure some of these kids get this at home because their parents or grandparents are wealthy influential high profile people and they have experiences other kids don't have and may have learned things like how to behave on a set or when a TV camera is pointed at you or interacting with a newspaper reporter or the household help or sitting at the front table of a banquet.

Also at the private school the younger kids eat lunch with their homeroom teacher so they can work on their table manners. Having a kid with good table manners at home doesn't necessarily mean they will have good table manners at school among their peers.

Ther are also Cotillion classes the kids are invited to pay for and attend where they learn some dancing and how to interact with the opposite sex. That is not school sponsored, but all the kids get invitations.

The teachers are not resentful about teaching these things. It's just part of the curriculum. Social skills is actually a class taught every single day. Kids act different among their peers. What they know at home doesn't always translate to school, which is why sometimes parents are shocked by something their kid has done at school.

[Mrs.Bewitched]

Originally Posted by beanandpumpkin

A few reasons that I can think of:

1. Parents are not home to parent. Mom and Dad both work from early in the morning until dinnertime. Children are in before school care/school/after school care all day long, 5 days per week. On weekends, they are at soccer practice, being babysat by Grandma (or a babysitter) so Mom and Dad can have some "adult time," etc. Before they're old enough to go to school, they're in daycare for 10+ hours per day. So parents have very limited time when their children are awake in order to model appropriate behavior and train in manners, etc.

2. Parents have their own authority undermined all. the. time. Doctors, teachers, nurses, Dr. Phil, the next door neighbor, strangers on a message board... they all have input on how one raises their child. If a parent wants to sleep with their baby, they're told by the nurse in the hospital that the baby could die of suffocation. If a parent wants to delay shots, they're warned by the doctor that they could die of Hepatitis B tomorrow. If a child is going through a bratty phase at age 4, Mom's friends have all of the answers, which they may have heard on a talk show. Doctors are qualified to make medical decisions, and parents are not. Teachers are qualified to teach, and parents are not. We have given away our authority to people who simply cannot have our individual child's best interest in mind... so parents feel inept and unable to teach even simple things like manners.

3. Lack of parental manners and low standards of behavior. Have you been out and about at all recently? Have you witnessed the behavior of full grown adults, some of whom have children? It's scary. Apparently their parents never taught THEM manners and how to behave, so how can they teach their children?

I am not going to state my opinion...but just ask questions.

For your answers:

1. Shouldn't parents think before having children about the time they are going to be able to have to spend with their child- the quality time...in between their work schedule and other schedules? (now of course, I know this doesn't happen in reality- heck, I didn't contemplate it when I had my two children....but I make it work....and still have time to parent them in amongst my full time work schedule and classes..) Or, if they still have these busy schedules, do what it takes- as a parent- to model those skills as a parent between and during those schedules? Isn't it still their responsibility to manage all of what they decided to have?

2. I didn't think of that answer....very good post.

3. I definitely agree. Which is sad then, because it becomes teachers responsibilities to teach their children what they should be doing....but because they themselves have low standards of behavior the responsibility falls on all others but themselves. Then I guess the blame would fall on their own parents.

I do understand the need to teach these traits. I do. I just don't agree with it being MADE a teacher's responsibility.

Thanks for your post!

[Mrs.Bewitched]

Originally Posted by Pandamonium

My question is, if your not going to name the school, what ethnic background are the majority of the students? Manners may very well be considered how to assimilate into the American culture.

Education may be a priority if the majority of the students are white. I am not stating that white people or even Americans are the only culture to believe that education is a priority. American white children have a tendency to believe that the name of the game is to grow up and leave the home immediately after graduation and become independent and separate of family. If the majority of the students are from other cultures (or even low income) the emphasis may be on "good". Education is not considered a priority in many cultures. Family might rate higher. Further, if one is not highly educated and past educational experiences have been negative-how, pray tell, are they to believe in it?

Lastly, in no way shape or form would I consider a teacher even a part time parent of my child. Frankly, I do not believe they are qualified to be the parent of my child. Especially, if they are continuously distracted by 30 other children.

I live in an area where a child could be suspended or disciplined and rather than contact the parent over the phone,they mail it. This means that one cannot parent a child. One cannot support the decision of the school. That decision has already been made. There are parents that will literally beg to be contacted if their child causes the slightest problem. Then someone stands back, especially in this area, and states the education system has become the parent. I don't think so.

Now, there are children that do not know there is a difference between Kleenex and toilet paper. They have never heard of a difference between play clothes and school clothes. They believe the only "show" is a movie.

The school is in SWFL. The school is over half caucasion, and the rest is mostly Hispanic with a few creole. Out of all of them, most are middle class to upper class.

[TouchOfWhimsy]

Originally Posted by mrshvo

I am not going to state my opinion...but just ask questions.

For your answers:

1. Shouldn't parents think before having children about the time they are going to be able to have to spend with their child- the quality time...in between their work schedule and other schedules? (now of course, I know this doesn't happen in reality- heck, I didn't contemplate it when I had my two children....but I make it work....and still have time to parent them in amongst my full time work schedule and classes..) Or, if they still have these busy schedules, do what it takes- as a parent- to model those skills as a parent between and during those schedules? Isn't it still their responsibility to manage all of what they decided to have?



Thanks for your post!

Oh, of course, of course, of course! I didn't want to interject my own opinion on the matter... just giving my impressions. I personally stay home and homeschool my own children. I am always available to watch them and to be sure that they are learning manners and social skills and everything else they need to know. I was just stating what I see going on in other families.

[Mrs.Bewitched]

Originally Posted by FarNorthDallas

At my son's private school they teach manners and social skills - absolutely. There are situations at a school that you don't always have at home, like how to accept an award on stage. You wait, shake hands, say thank you, get in your spot, stand towards the audience with your award displayed. They also teach them how to behave as audience members - in chairs. (I have never seen the kids sitting on the floor, like what the public school had the kids do at assemblies with teachers towering over them.)

They teach them how to make introductions, how to be a proper host at grandparents day, I mean these are manners and social graces, too. Manners means a lot more than Please and Thank you. And sure some of these kids get this at home because their parents or grandparents are wealthy influential high profile people and they have experiences other kids don't have and may have learned things like how to behave on a set or when a TV camera is pointed at you or interacting with a newspaper reporter or the household help or sitting at the front table of a banquet.

Also at the private school the younger kids eat lunch with their homeroom teacher so they can work on their table manners. Having a kid with good table manners at home doesn't necessarily mean they will have good table manners at school among their peers.

Ther are also Cotillion classes the kids are invited to pay for and attend where they learn some dancing and how to interact with the opposite sex. That is not school sponsored, but all the kids get invitations.

The teachers are not resentful about teaching these things. It's just part of the curriculum. Social skills is actually a class taught every single day. Kids act different among their peers. What they know at home doesn't always translate to school, which is why sometimes parents are shocked by something their kid has done at school.

All of those that you mentioned are a different set of skills, and I agree, that they should be taught by teachers, as it is relevant to school specifically.

The teachers that are resentful- all in this school which has a great reputation, is about being expected and demanded to teach the basic skills- the skills I mentioned- the please, thank you, may I have this, being respectful.....

one child actually got in trouble for hitting and the parent asked if the teacher taught him not to! (now of course teachers do, but come on, I as a parent teach that too!)