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Old 09-09-2008, 08:40 AM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
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Non-caring parents begats non-caring children. How does one break the cycle?
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonababe View Post
Non-caring parents begats non-caring children. How does one break the cycle?
I'am not necessarily sure if it's that those parents don't care it could be more that their thinking is being shaped by their financial situation? Maybe it's that those "non caring parents" know or expect their kids to basically get blue collar jobs after high school because they can't afford to send them to college or trade school so why bother emphasizing academic achievement for a future blue collar job that doesn't require you to have mastered calculus or speak perfect English?
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:19 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
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There are potentially many reasons that account for the lag, which could include any, all, or none of the following:

1) Maybe the parents of many of the black students do not have high academic achaivement as a priority, since they are too busy trying maintain steady work in an environment that favors white and asian people.

2) Maybe many black kids don't feel comfortable in an environment that not only fosters frivolity and superficiality, but is characterized by blacks kids feeling isolated or treated like outsiders because of group cliques based along racial lines. Eg. whites stick to their own racial group, asians do same. The few black kids don't have such support and are not accepted as equals by the other groups.

3) Maybe in a city that caters to and favors whites and asians, black students feel isolated, and this has a detrimental effect on their approach to school and standardized tests.

4) Maybe high academic achievement is not a goal of many of the black students.

5) Maybe there is an incredibly strong anti-black sentiment among asians in SF that has a detrimental effect on black kids' ability to stay focused. Asians thrive in isolation, blacks don't.

6) Maybe blacks are not willing to put in 12+ hours per day studying to compete with asians, but whites are. Black kids are not one-dimensional, obsessed with grades, and willing to become social retards just to claim top academic honors.

7) There are studies that suggest that blacks don't do well on standardized tests because those tests are not ideal or have flawed design. Maybe this flaw favors whites and asians.

8) Maybe the standardized tests favor those kids who live in affluent households, which in SF may exclude black kids.

9) Maybe the white and asian kids studied for the tests and the black kids didn't.

10) Maybe too few black kids who took the tests inacccurately skewed the results to be worse than they normally would be if there were just as many black kids taking the test as there are whites and asians.

Just some possible reasons to ponder...
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
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I agree that having active parents is probably a huge factor in a childs academic success. Growing up in a low income household, my parents both worked (until layoffs and illness) but pressed me on homework nightly. They always went to the PTAs, and did not tolerate less than B's. They didnt pay much attention to the sports stuff (maybe I wasnt that good).

I worked in some government labor programs w other disadvantaged youth (think their called at-risk now), where just getting by and not dropping out was the goal they seemed to be held too. Most appeared to have parents who were not too 'successful' or interested in being parents. I was teased by many for studying, 'because whats that gonna get you?'. I heard native americans not wanting to be 'Apples' and black not wanting to be like 'The Man'.

I look back and think, we seemed to have similar economic backgrounds. But I had an involved parent and was held accountible for grades (not allowed sports w/o a B avg). I put myself through college and have made an engineering career in the oil industry. I see some of the same folks in the old neighborhood that complain about circumstance and make excuse that they just werent into school.

So...I dont think color is as big an issue, but will agree that it some minority communities, education is implied to be 'less true' to the race.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:39 AM
 
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As a black man myself, I am regularly disgusted at the majority of the African American kids I see. I think it is the fault of the Black culture. I have seen this go downhill in the last 10 years. It seems like all the negative stereotypes that white people believe are true in so many cases. I see so many Black boys here in New Orleans that look and act like Gangsters.

So many of the black youth are anti intellectual and think learning and education is dumb. I see so many black kids who wear jackets and stocking caps in the middle of the summer! This type of behavior does not encourage learning.

Last edited by Refugee56; 09-11-2008 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Refugee56 View Post
As a black man myself, I am regularly disgusted at the majority of the African American kids I see...
Isn't the family structer of those Black kids more fragmented than those of the white and Asian kids who do well?

I follow the thinking that Black family breakdown is more the results of too much Black male unemployment related to the loss of manufacturing jobs along with not enough Black entreprenurship. This high unemployment of Black males has reduced the number of marrigable Black males for creating more two parent homes and better behaving Black kids.
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Old 09-13-2008, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Midwest
3,697 posts, read 6,712,673 times
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Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Are you guys going to try to call me a racist? . Do you want me to post an article about the Hispanic (I'm hispanic) drop out rate as well to make me seem balanced?

What do I think about this? Why did this happen? Well for one funding was cut for schools in California. I'm waiting to see strikes at capital. The Government should focus on education over a lot of issues. This should be way up there.
Please understand that big funding does not equal good education. IMO local control is more likely to equal good education.

Teaching core subjects (including history), maintaining classroom discipline, a playground where you can play hard and sometimes get hurt and lose games vs. the PC desert many want to push today, and a lack of a political agenda will get you a far better education than the current teach-to-the-test with federal bureaucratic interference. Schools were far better in the 50s and before, before Washington got too involved. A 50s high school graduate had a better fund of knowledge, far better literacy, and greater math skills than today's college graduate.

My own experience with black kids vs. white kids in a jr high school was that the black kids considered it "acting white" to excell academically. It was not cool. Being a good athlete was cool. Having some gangsta cache was cool. Most of the black males I saw planned on being professional athletes. That includes even kids who were in the last-to-be-picked group for gym teams.
They were not generally interested in developing or even discussing a fall-back plan B, despite the incredible odds against ever making it to the top, for even extraordinary school athletes.

That sort of self-defeating and no-planning mindset was a sad thing to see. It's a perfect plan for ending up in dead end jobs or getting tempted into criminal acts.

It took serious cookies to be an A-student black kid.
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Old 09-13-2008, 10:56 PM
 
6,314 posts, read 8,639,160 times
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Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
Please understand that big funding does not equal good education.
That's true. Oprah did a show on schools and they highlighted a school in Indiana that was mostly white and well funded and yet this school had a very high drop out rate.
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: McKeesport, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I have mixed views on this. We can assume that much of the lack of black academic achievement is related to a lack of funding,low teaching expectations etc but some of this is related to the attitudes of some Blacks towards learning. Basically if more Blacks could devote the same enegry and focus to mastering algebra as we do with mastering jump shots,dunks and scoring touchdowns then Blacks would pass Asians in academics.
"We"...are you Black? If you are, then the first step towards change begins with you (and you can start with trying to sound a bit more uplifting than condescending)
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:12 AM
 
Location: McKeesport, PA
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Originally Posted by Motion View Post
What was the economic background of most of those Black kids? I've noticed this acting white attitude was stronger among low income Black kids. The more middle class Black kids tended to do better in school and had a different attitude than many of the Black kids from the projects for example. I think middle class Black kids like middle class whites get exposed to more things that make education more relevant like being around educated parents,neighbors,taking vacations and having more books in the home etc.
I grew up in the projects and my home was full of books. Encyclopedias, biographies, history, religious, scientific, those Time-Life books -- so please don't make gross generalizations
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