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Old 02-08-2007, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
699 posts, read 2,304,454 times
Reputation: 288

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How do they support themselves now? They barely do...as I suggested earlier, they would be managed by private administrative companies that are funded thru taxation of corporation and other busniness in the state as well as parents of current students...and I'm sure we could find some other sources for such an important endeavor right? That's part of the problem right now...people want to complain and whine about 'bad' schools but when it comes to investing more money in education they run the other way.

My thing is...public school isn't working using the model and framework currently in place, which incidently has been in place for a century or more. I've really just gotten on my soapbox about it tonight, but why can't we run schools a different way that might work better and make more sense? I've been hearing about the Gates Fund and how in the future it could be doling out more education funding than the federal government, which isn't all that much to begin with. This country COULD rally around education reform with so much money we wouldn't know how to spend it all. We seem to do it for a good ole' war. Why not education?
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Old 02-08-2007, 09:59 PM
 
157 posts, read 578,548 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need_affordable_home View Post
I dont see why you cant get a choice of schools you want
A very interesting discussion - thank you all very much.

In response to the above quote, Colorado has another reason as to why you can't choose your school. For a while, Colorado had open enrollment, but issues with SPORTS caused many problems ... teams taking advantage of the freedom of enrollment to load all of the best football players at one school, for example. Another school may have been stacked with all of the best girls soccer players, ... etc. I am aware of kids who didn't even live with their families during the school week - they lived with a teammate's family in order to avoid having to drive 2, 3, or more hours everyday so they could play for a "better" team. This also led to some pretty hard feelings sometimes and to questions about the importance of sports as a part of the educational situation in the state. Please don't misunderstand - I'm not judging this as right/wrong, just stating the situation.

I have been out of the school system for several years, but I believe that Colo. has now gone back to zoning kids into particular schools (I think). I'm guessin' that sports weren't the only reason, but it most certainly was a large contributing factor that can keep kids from attending the schools of their choice. For those with open enrollments, do you know how your states handle this situation?

I have really enjoyed reading this thread and I agree that the education system in our country needs reform. I am interested in what you all have to say - thank you again.
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:24 PM
 
4,291 posts, read 7,902,428 times
Reputation: 1557
Sprts, the reason why public schools are public is that, if the state governments force taxpayers to pay for them, the state governments reason that they need to ensure that the schools do their jobs. In some states, cities and counties regulate schools. In many cases, school districts only answer to the state.

The Gates fund supports publicly-funded schools that are small in size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8 View Post
How do they support themselves now? They barely do...as I suggested earlier, they would be managed by private administrative companies that are funded thru taxation of corporation and other busniness in the state as well as parents of current students...and I'm sure we could find some other sources for such an important endeavor right? That's part of the problem right now...people want to complain and whine about 'bad' schools but when it comes to investing more money in education they run the other way.

My thing is...public school isn't working using the model and framework currently in place, which incidently has been in place for a century or more. I've really just gotten on my soapbox about it tonight, but why can't we run schools a different way that might work better and make more sense? I've been hearing about the Gates Fund and how in the future it could be doling out more education funding than the federal government, which isn't all that much to begin with. This country COULD rally around education reform with so much money we wouldn't know how to spend it all. We seem to do it for a good ole' war. Why not education?
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:33 PM
 
157 posts, read 578,548 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8 View Post
This country COULD rally around education reform with so much money we wouldn't know how to spend it all. We seem to do it for a good ole' war. Why not education?
Hey sprts,

I don't have an education reform plan (that's why I'm not planning to announce my run for the presidency yet ), but I kinda hear what you are saying from up on your soap box -- our society, IMHO, needs to choose differently in order to help change education - I know that sounds way, way too simplistic, but not only do we have enough $$ for war, but also for all forms of entertainment - movies, TV, MTV, music, professional sports (no offense intended with your screen name). I thank you for your opinions, and I hope this discussion continues - as I said, I enjoy listening. Also, thank you for being a teacher (I think I read that somewhere).

dgoboy
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
699 posts, read 2,304,454 times
Reputation: 288
BUT...it's not working well anymore but we're still trying to make it work. I understand why they are public, but I don't understand why they need to stay that way when they are in a state of crisis. We need major reform...and soon.

It's like the state is giving us a quarter and expecting a dollar's worth of output.
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
699 posts, read 2,304,454 times
Reputation: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoboy204 View Post
Hey sprts,

I don't have an education reform plan (that's why I'm not planning to announce my run for the presidency yet ), but I kinda hear what you are saying from up on your soap box -- our society, IMHO, needs to choose differently in order to help change education - I know that sounds way, way too simplistic, but not only do we have enough $$ for war, but also for all forms of entertainment - movies, TV, MTV, music, professional sports (no offense intended with your screen name). I thank you for your opinions, and I hope this discussion continues - as I said, I enjoy listening. Also, thank you for being a teacher (I think I read that somewhere).

dgoboy
Hurray! Another vote for me! I would love to run for King of Education...
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,463,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
True but usually the suburbs with the best schools are the affluent ones. There are a few that don't require $$$ to get in a great school district but unfortunately it usually doesn't work like that.

Then the quality of the private schools would go down. People pay extra for quality even when it comes to education. If everyone and their mother could get into a private school, there would be no point in having one.
Kind of off thread but in Taiwan all elementary schools are private, you have to pay a tuition. Works great. People over there take great pains getting their kids into just the right school. But here's what makes it work. The colleges are public and they are free. But, there are very strict guidlines to get into these colleges. Must have a GPA of at least XX.X, you must have played x number of sports. You must have joined x number of clubs and activities. Your attitude has to be just right. So parents try the hardest they can to get children in just the right private schools so that they are prepared for the college the mom and dad want them to go to.

Also, they don't go by grade, but by age. You start on your 5th birthday and finish on your 18th birthday.
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:57 PM
 
4,291 posts, read 7,902,428 times
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Actually, there is a public education system in Taiwan.

From the Taiwan English Ministry of Education: http://english.moe.gov.tw/ct.asp?xIt...tNode=505&mp=1

"This phenomenon is particularly obvious in public schools. The unit student education funding of public schools has dropped from $ 229,577 in 1998 to $ 187,982 in 2002, an 11.15% decrease in five years; while the unit student education funding of private schools has increased from $ 119,542 in 1998 to $ 124,098 in 2002, a 3.81% growth (See Illustration 2). In the meantime, when compared with the funding for students of higher education in other nations (2000 data), including the US, the UK, Japan, and South Korea (Table 1), Taiwan lags far behind the US, Japan, Germany, and the UK, even lower than neighboring South Korea."

Just because people pay for school doesn't mean the schools are not funded by taxpayers.

In many countries, people pay for public school. I.E. in Japan high schools have tuitions.

In the U.S., some parents get kids in "out of district" schools and the parents have to pay money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
Kind of off thread but in Taiwan all elementary schools are private, you have to pay a tuition. Works great. People over there take great pains getting their kids into just the right school. But here's what makes it work. The colleges are public and they are free. But, there are very strict guidlines to get into these colleges. Must have a GPA of at least XX.X, you must have played x number of sports. You must have joined x number of clubs and activities. Your attitude has to be just right. So parents try the hardest they can to get children in just the right private schools so that they are prepared for the college the mom and dad want them to go to.

Also, they don't go by grade, but by age. You start on your 5th birthday and finish on your 18th birthday.
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:17 AM
 
4,291 posts, read 7,902,428 times
Reputation: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8 View Post
BUT...it's not working well anymore but we're still trying to make it work. I understand why they are public, but I don't understand why they need to stay that way when they are in a state of crisis. We need major reform...and soon.

It's like the state is giving us a quarter and expecting a dollar's worth of output.
Well, school performance depends on the area and the school itself. In many depressed areas, schools are plagued by a sickening "culture" that discourages good performance in school. Sometimes the school has a serious problem fighting the culture.
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
699 posts, read 2,304,454 times
Reputation: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Well, school performance depends on the area and the school itself. In many depressed areas, schools are plagued by a sickening "culture" that discourages good performance in school. Sometimes the school has a serious problem fighting the culture.
So you're saying that lower income students are not capable of high performance? I hope you're aware that they are capable, but they begin at a place far below where an average income student begins.

Think about the differences in home life...middle income (and up) families take vacations, they normally have more than one car so they may have activities in several areas of the city, they may be exposed to a wider variety of food, music, clothing, religion, etc...cultures. There are SO many ways poor students are behind from day one. Additionally, parents are less likely to spend enough time working with children on academics both before Kindergarten and throughout the schools years. I don't think these kids should be shrugged off and forgotten about because they are poor, urban and at a disadvantage. There are very bright kids, average kids, and below average kids in any school, and just as many bright ones in depressed areas as anywhere else. They deserve a chance to succede just as any other child does - every child in the U.S. is entitled to a free public education. It isn't the child's fault that he lives in poverty and starts out life with so many marks against him.

School performance does not depend on the area, but it does follow socioeconomics of the families at a particular school. I also strongly believe that the performance assessments that are used need to be reworked so they are fair to everyone and so they can be delivered more than one way (orally, essay, objective). Another reform issue that is long overdue...
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