Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-01-2008, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,649,845 times
Reputation: 11084

Advertisements

then why are we still expecting students to do their own work? Why not have group testing instead?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-01-2008, 07:59 PM
 
697 posts, read 2,015,093 times
Reputation: 382
Ok, I'll bite. Why not have group testing instead?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2008, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 9,061,904 times
Reputation: 3360
Teamwork is overrated and leads to mediocrity. I much prefer limited teamwork activities and more of an opportunity to succeed or fail on personal achievement.

Group testing (most any kind of group activity) is a disservice to those at either end of the bell curve.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2008, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Hollywood)
174 posts, read 516,710 times
Reputation: 193
Default Would you want your doctor to operate after passing a group test?

Individual brains do learning - there is no collective consciousness that is the participant in the learning process.

Cooperative learning techniques are nonsensical lip service to an absurd ideal of Democracy as some kind of teaching method. In an urban setting here is what works ---- direct instruction, followed by active engagement, followed by immediate feedback, followed by review, followed by a test. The process is run by the teacher, not by the kids. When kids become disruptive, they are sent out - no drama is needed. Good ole fashioned Skinnerian reinforcement works - positive AND NEGATIVE.

It is absolutely imperative to call a halt to touchy-feely pedagogy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2008, 05:58 AM
 
268 posts, read 1,050,025 times
Reputation: 218
. . . depends on what the objectives and procedures are of the team learning.

If the objective is to get the students to work together and come to some kind of consensus, then this team learning activity is designed to teach people skills, communication, cooperation, conflict resolution. The success of the team learning activity might be hard to assess since most tests focus on content knowledge and not on development of skills. Still, if we think these are skills that need to be developed, then we have to go ahead and do them, and somehow develop assessments directed towards discovering if the activity developed those objectives.

If the objective of team learning is peer-teaching, peer-led inquiry, concept-building in the absence of an authority (the instructor or a textbook that "tells" what the students have to learn), then we can simply assess content knowledge or deductive skills based on that content knowledge. Again, we suit the assessment to the objective.

@skreem2:
Even Skinner doubted the over-all applicability of his processes and towards the end of his career, softened his stance. Behaviorists (such as Skinner) test only a couple of things: can the learner give the answer and how fast the learner can give the answer - there is no discussion on the thought process of the learner.

If our objective is to model how our students should behave - then, I agree, a behaviorist approach is the way to go.

But if our objective is to model how our students think - then maybe a cognitivist or constructivist approach should be our principle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2008, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,713,551 times
Reputation: 9829
Good points from coldwynn.

I think it would be an interesting research project to see how a group dynamic affected performance . . . would kids perform better on assessments if they knew their individual grades were contributing to part of a group score?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2008, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Tupelo,MS
53 posts, read 332,050 times
Reputation: 33
I had a graduate professor that did a thesis on group testing. We had group testing in his class. It was wonderful! It was not the typical multiple choice or matching test, it was essay. It made the group talk about the facts and come up with our own opinions about the questions. I learned a lot more than just recalling facts on a test. I think this would work with certain classes only (history, literature).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2008, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,649,845 times
Reputation: 11084
Okay, this was just something to postulate...not something that I actually agreed with.

I believe that Man is far too competitive for group testing to work. I don't support it, I don't believe teamwork is a necessary trait to develop. Each person is required to pull their own weight, and do THEIR portion of a job. Those portions coming together might be referred to as "teamwork"...but each person should be responsible for their contribution.

If student A had an idea for a paper, student B did the research, student C actually wrote it out, and student D got all the credit--which of these students would feel that they were treated fairly?

I also am pretty dismissive of the concept of "society" in general.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2008, 04:42 PM
 
355 posts, read 1,376,512 times
Reputation: 177
I like the idea of group testing. But everytime ive ever had group work, I can tell you one poor sap gets stuck with the whole assignment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2008, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,729,686 times
Reputation: 35920
^^^That seemed to be the case with my kids too, up to and including grad school!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:50 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top