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Old 10-07-2008, 10:01 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
7,140 posts, read 5,228,662 times
Reputation: 4877

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
This is a headscratcher . . . phonics and word recognition are not opposites. Phonics is one way of teaching word recognition and is far from obsolete. Companies that publish phonemically based programs like Wilson and Lindamood-Bell are thriving. And people are trying to find a formula to make 2 plus 2 equal 5? Uh, OK.

There are plenty who will argue the complete opposite, that subjects are not being taught with enough appreciation for higher level thinking because it is not assessed on standardized tests.
My comment on 2plus2 was an attempt at humor, reflecting my lack of understanding of some of the methods being used to teach math these days. My sons homework confuses me more than him ( with math any way). As far as phonics versus word recognition, what they are teaching is to "spell the word like it sounds" with no points off if it is inncorrect. . Word recognition , also, does no justice to the CONTEXT of a word. At least in the way they are using it here. Any hoo..I'm just an ol' country boy trying to get a boy raised in a world that has changed faster than I can keep up. The "new" methods may indeed have merit, but I'm not an educational insider. Just a parent. So as far as helping my son with his school work I have to use the methods that I know. Maybe I should go back to school myself.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,237 posts, read 27,174,260 times
Reputation: 10607
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
My comment on 2plus2 was an attempt at humor, reflecting my lack of understanding of some of the methods being used to teach math these days. My sons homework confuses me more than him ( with math any way). As far as phonics versus word recognition, what they are teaching is to "spell the word like it sounds" with no points off if it is inncorrect. . Word recognition , also, does no justice to the CONTEXT of a word. At least in the way they are using it here. Any hoo..I'm just an ol' country boy trying to get a boy raised in a world that has changed faster than I can keep up. The "new" methods may indeed have merit, but I'm not an educational insider. Just a parent. So as far as helping my son with his school work I have to use the methods that I know. Maybe I should go back to school myself.
I get what this fellow is saying now...

to, two, and too

they're there and their

are being made interchangeable, since there's no context. And I've seen a lot of that sort of thing from people in their 20's--I can believe it being taught that way nowadays...the era of the text message

"u r nice. Wud u go 4 me?"
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:24 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,686 posts, read 9,010,104 times
Reputation: 9353
There is a great article at:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~gmp1/barber.htm called "America Skips School: why we talk so much about education and do so little" by Benjamin Barber. Read it in its entirety--it will tell you everything you need to know. Also, know that things have only gotten worse since I first read the article from 15 years ago. I sub in 7 different school districts and have seen some of the most egregious errors from teachers--esp those in the upper income neighborhoods. For instance, did you know that "corridor" is a compound word and is spelled "coridoor"? Or that evergreen trees are called that b/c they never lose their leaves? Neither did I, but I actually watched elementary teachers teaching that in the wealthiest school district in the city. And don't even get me started on the math curriculum that's being taught--one whole class consisted of the 4th grade class going to the 2nd grade class and measuring their height! Here's a highlight from the above mentioned article:
Quote:
REAL-WORLD CULTURAL LITERACY
1. According to television, having fun in America means
a) going blond
b) drinking Pepsi
c) playing Nintendo
d) wearing Air Jordans
e) reading Mark Twain

2. A good way to prepare for a high-income career and to acquire status in our society is to
a) win a slam-dunk contest
b) take over a company and sell off its assets
c) start a successful rock band
d) earn a professional degree
e) become a kindergarten teacher

3. Book publishers are financially rewarded today for publishing
a) mega-cookbooks
b) mega-cat books
c) megabooks by Michael Crichton
d) megabooks by John Grisham
e) mini-books by Voltaire
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:50 PM
 
68 posts, read 68,580 times
Reputation: 73
Here in the UK it appears to very much the same, a general dumbing down of education.
I agree with the poster about the baby sitter in the corner.

We have a grandson who was 7 in August, doing well at school, he can read. He was taught using phonics - but the way they taught it was - they would bring a new letter home every day, starting with "s" and there would an accompanying action to help them remember, after about 3 months of this, when he brought a book home he recognised the letters and knew the sounds they made and could sound out a word and generally get it right. It also helped a lot with spelling - he knew the letters, he knew the sounds. is this the type of phonics you have in the US.

My own children learned to read using word recognition - 2 of them were fine, one of them really struggled.

Below is the phonics method used in GS's school

Untitled Document (http://www.jollylearning.co.uk/jp.htm - broken link)
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:30 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 7,915,016 times
Reputation: 5319
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
1) Television. The blue-eyed babysitter. We have become an entertainment culture, rather than an education culture. So we skip the school board meeting so we can watch American Idol.
.
I just started reading "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman, I would recommend it to anyone (especially if you are in this thread). His premise is that we have moved into the age of showbusiness. The move away from a print based culture has really harmed our society. When someone like Lincoln gave a speech, it was a spoken copy of a written speech. It was spoken in the same way we would write an essay for graduate school. Now, politicians communicate in quips and slogans. We have moved away from literacy and into an age where entertainment trumps all.

I think the concept of trivia is amazing. Trivia is a fairly new concept. In modern society, a smart person can spout off random facts about almost anything, but they have no depth of knowledge. Intellectualism is embracing one subject fully and not being afraid of the details. Games like trivial pursuit seem to show us who is smart, but smart today is just useless knowledge.

I just graduated college - am only 22, and I would be the first to admit that I have been way too lazy. I thought about going to grad school for psychology a couple of years ago, but didn't do it because I didn't want to go to that much school. Recently I have been thinking about this anti-intellectualism, and am seriously reconsidering going back to school. I don't want to end up being called smart because I can win 'Are you smarter than a 5th grader'.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
28,115 posts, read 24,118,217 times
Reputation: 33736
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear View Post
I'm not sure if there's a wave of anti-intellectualism as much as bigger divide between the haves and the have-nots, when it comes to education. There's those children who get an excellent education and those who go to schools not much better than daycare. Children who go to better schools are more likely to have a better attitude towards learning. Those who go to terrible schools are not.

There are kids out there who have every education opportunity possible: These kids are going to computer camp in the summer and theater camp over winter break. Their parents read to them every night. They are learning a foreign language at age 5, they're going to advanced science/tech schools, they're participating in all kinds of enrichment programs, and they're doing actual research by age 15. And I think there's more and more schools that are offering better and better opportunities.

Except, most kids don't have access to these schools, either because of cost of the school, or cost of housing in the location the school is in. They go schools are sorely underfunded. They can't afford recent textbooks, much less updated computer equipment, buses for field trips, etc. And they're not attracting the best teachers. The parents are less likely to go to parent-teacher conferences. So these kids are much less likely to have a positive attitude towards school, and not bother to learn anything beyond what is expected of them, if that.

So, maybe, the smart are getting smarter, and the dumb are getting dumber?

I think this is a dangerous idea that is dead wrong. I know plenty of people from poor districts who did well because they (and their families) made education a priority instead of a joke. The idea that it will make a difference to throw money at a group of people who don't value education is ridiculous and laughable.

I will have to jump on the media bandwagon with this one. That and the new fuzzy-wuzzy mentality that we have to protect children from everything, including hurt feelings.

Giving trophies to every kid who plays teaches him nothing about striving to win.

Making homework optional and giving extra chances to retake tests for higher scores teaches him nothing about responsibility, hard work, and performance.

Idolizing the drug-infused celebrity lifestyle (and you do that by plastering the faces of these "bad boy" athletes and "bimbo" actresses everywhere) teaches him nothing about what is important in this world and society.

Allowing these generational welfare families to proliferate teaches everyone that America will always give you something for nothing if you hold your hand out long enough. Where is the self-sufficiency and the pioneering spirit that made this country great? Oh, yeah...the asian immigrants.

There is too much emphasis on acquiring material goods and too little on contributing to society. It's just not "cool" to be responsible and hard-working.

In that vein, it's not cool to be smart, worldly, or give a darn about anything else going on in the world.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Lettuce Land
681 posts, read 1,808,579 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
I just started reading "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman, I would recommend it to anyone (especially if you are in this thread)..........
Your point is well made. What does it say of us that more folk seem to rather watch a satirical version of a politician than the real thing?

Being "entertained" is not bad, per se. Being "over-entertained" is mind-numbing. As always, the devil is in the details.

Best wishes on your quest.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Carlsbad
105 posts, read 513,987 times
Reputation: 122
Ohhh...let's start a thread where everyone competes to see who can write the most "intellectual" post about why everyone else is stupid. Nevermind, looks like it's already been done.

Consider this, being intellectual is relative. We're all intellectuals compared to the cavemen- see, problem solved.

Besides, Anti intellectualism in America= Job security for me.

Bring on the stupids.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Lettuce Land
681 posts, read 1,808,579 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by New2Oro View Post
........Bring on the stupids.
OK. In that vein then, welcome.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:54 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
7,140 posts, read 5,228,662 times
Reputation: 4877
Quote:
Originally Posted by New2Oro View Post
Ohhh...let's start a thread where everyone competes to see who can write the most "intellectual" post about why everyone else is stupid. Nevermind, looks like it's already been done.

Consider this, being intellectual is relative. We're all intellectuals compared to the cavemen- see, problem solved.

Besides, Anti intellectualism in America= Job security for me.

Bring on the stupids.
I didn't think I was trying to portray myself as some kind of super intellect....just a confused parent that was educated in a different system and time. But I don't consider myself "stupid". That may be a tad strong of a word. I just want what every other parent wants for their kids...to help them get the most out of school. With the "modern" methods it's hard for an old schooler, such as myself, to adjust. Not impossible, just a little tougher than the average bear.
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