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Old 10-25-2008, 05:58 PM
 
414 posts, read 1,093,475 times
Reputation: 286

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaCowboy View Post
Great indirect rebuttal. Typical. To afraid to address me directly, so you talk around me. I'm here, lets debate. I don' bite, promise! What do you disagree with in my post? At least the other teacher here debates on topic. I might not agree, but he argues his points of view well. Generalizing and finger pointing proves nothing.

The summary of my position is based on the following. Very simply to follow.

1. We are tired of the Teacher's union controlling our failing education system. Holding it hostage if you will.

I do agree that teacher unions do protect poor teachers. They also drive salaries so high that good quality teachers must be let go so that districts can afford to pay tenured teachers. You can see this with every union protected situation - auto workers, steel workers, even professional sports. The end result - a fractured system.

However, you are incorrect with one statement. Unions are not controlling our educational system - employment structures yes - but the biggest problem with our educational system is the fact that they are controlled by under-qualified politicians. Whether it be the state or the local school board, too many important decisions are being made by people that have never stepped foot in the classroom, not "in the trenches" representatives.

2. We are tired of hearing how very bad and lazy teachers can;t be fired. No, you're not all lazy, but you know many are. If you are good and motivated at your educator job, you don't need the union protecting your job. It works fine for the other 99% of us out there. Or I should say, it has too.

Many states are not union states. You should know that with a name like "carolinacowboy". Neither NC or SC are union states. Don't forget, many professions have unions representing them, not just teachers. Why do you think a GMC Yukon costs $50,000. Not because it's superior, but because the auto workers union is protecting GM employees that show up loaded at work and sleep their entire shift away (yes it happens - fact). Darken the man's skin (I can say that - I've been black my whole life) or give him a permanent limp, and it becomes even more difficult to fire him. My point is, many people across the board are inappropriately protected, not just teachers. I have witnessed many lazy, bad employees at every job I have ever had. It's a reflection of what our country has become. More of a feeling of entitlement, rather than pride.

3. We are tired of the whinning about how tough your job is.

It is tough. Trust me I know. I've done plenty of hard physical labor, played football in college, etc. and I am dog-butt tired when I get home. Try getting a child that doesn't understand why a positive times a negative is a negative to master a skill- and then multiply that by 30 kids by six 1 hour sessions a day.

Most of the people saying that teaching is easy, can't even dedicate an hour a night to help their OWN kids complete their homework.

Beginning teacher turnover rate has more to do with incompetence than it does money.


4. We are tired of how underpaid you are. Again, the demand for these jobs proves this is false.

If that correlation carried any wieght, our local grocery store wouldn't have had 84 applicants for 4 part-time positions last week. People need jobs - it's that simple. There is a major surplus in just about any job market that requires an education. That's why factories and service industries are filled up with people that have college degrees in other fields. I know two people with MBAs currently working at a restaurant. High supply, low demand describes our current economy. Haven't you been watching the news?

For every bad, lazy, union protected teacher you can find, you will find 10 dedicated, hard working, under-paid teachers.

Show us a nice finished product, (our kids) and break your union and I'll quit griping too.

The finished product comes from a collaboration of home, community and school. Unfortunately, the biggest loser in today's society.....is home, not the schools.
My rebuttals are in red.
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Old 10-25-2008, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,132 posts, read 1,901,789 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by newflowers View Post
I choose not to accept the pleasant invitation to engage in confrontational debate with you or the other members of your "we" because, as previously stated, it is my opinion, based on your comments, that you argue from a position of ignorance - that means because you are not a teacher, you have, at best, second-hand information of what teachers do and don't do. I wish you an excellent day.
Then what is the point of continuing to stay in the thread?
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Old 10-25-2008, 07:02 PM
 
Location: NY
2 posts, read 2,526 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 View Post
I see this all the time, teachers complaining non stop about how they don't get paid enough on and on. Yet, I see no shortage of teachers and from the looks of it the retention rate for teachers is very high. To further my case, I see a lot of people who are trying to get teaching jobs. Seems like they get paid too much considering how many qualified people are looking for teaching jobs.
People arent drawn to teaching for the money. Depending upon where you teach, all the money in the world is worth the physical and emotion stress you deal with on the day to day (as well as all the bureaucratic bs). And, if it werent for the summers off (which we also get, but you neglected to mention), teachers would drop dead of exhaustion.
You will never understand the magnitude of the statement "teachers dont get paid enough," until you have done it yourself. To come full circle, qualified and unqualified people alike are not drawn to teaching for the money, or the summers off. They are drawn to teaching because they want to do something proactive, and ideally, make a difference.
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Old 10-25-2008, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Central NJ
517 posts, read 1,582,728 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaCowboy View Post

3. We are tired of the whinning about how tough your job is.

4. We are tired of how underpaid you are. Again, the demand for these jobs proves this is false.

Does anyone realize that we are answering and defending our pay/jobs because of the original post that started this. No one was complaining at first. The teachers didn't start this post, it was someone else. We are just trying to explain our side.

Honestly though, I am so tired of this. We try to explain things and then it comes off as we are complaining. Most teachers on here aren't complaining. Please read ALL of the posts so that you can see.
I'm sure some teachers complain but so do many people in different professions- we are human. But for some reason the attitude seems to be that we are always complaining, want more money and have an easy job with summers off. Like another teacher said, become a teacher.

I never pretend to know someone else's job but many of you feel like you know ours. Like I said before, come and try it. By the way, I teach a Self Contained Special Ed.class - have fun!

Last edited by MMTeacher; 10-25-2008 at 08:12 PM.. Reason: mistake
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Old 10-25-2008, 08:21 PM
 
Location: long beach, ca
115 posts, read 288,885 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMTeacher View Post
Does anyone realize that we are answering and defending our pay/jobs because of the original post that started this. No one was complaining at first. The teachers didn't start this post, it was someone else. We are just trying to explain our side.


I never pretend to know someone else's job but many of you feel like you know ours. Like I said before, come and try it. By the way, I teach a Self Contained Special Ed.class - have fun!

I think it's a teacher thing - you see that part of the class just does not get it, so you try to find myriad ways to explain until they do.
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Old 10-25-2008, 08:36 PM
 
27 posts, read 50,248 times
Reputation: 15
I think teachers need higher pay. We are so twisted here paying celebrities all this money when the future is in our educators. This is why I love america, some people can see this and avoid falling into the trap.
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Old 10-25-2008, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Central NJ
517 posts, read 1,582,728 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by newflowers View Post
I think it's a teacher thing - you see that part of the class just does not get it, so you try to find myriad ways to explain until they do.
I feel like I'm (we're) talking to the walls here. I feel like that in class. But at least I know that my students are special needs and that's just the way they are.

Are the people on here (the ones that don't get it) just not getting it or I hate to say it, maybe not diagnosed when they were younger. Or maybe they just hate life and want to complain. My goodness!!!
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Old 10-26-2008, 03:58 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,388 posts, read 7,633,226 times
Reputation: 4070
Smile It's easy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaCowboy View Post
Call a spade a spade. In most parts of the country, qualified applicants take more then 2 years to land a teaching job. That should tell you how "underpaid" they are. BS! Teachers only work a little over half the year, yet fetch a full years salary. They have lucrative retirement plans, health benefits and so on. Yet they act like they are working for Walmart wages. It's a total con-job projected by the strangle hold the liberal teacher's union has on our education system. Bad, horrible teachers are protected and never loose their jobs. It's is a JOKE! We have went from first to last and all the teachers scream for is year over year, more money and benefits.

In full disclosure, I am generalizing here. Some states offer far less pay and benefits, but as a whole, most teachers are very well compensated for their cushy, part time jobs!

My sister is a teacher. She laughs how easy it is all the time. She teaches the same course, laid out for her year after year. Has all the vacation time summers off, full coverage insurance, is home daily by 2:30 pm. You want to know what hard work is? Go be a plumber for a day, carpenter, nurse, floor installer, ups driver, and so on. Teachers go in for their 6-7 hour day, have weekends off, Christmass, off, Thanksgiving off, Spring break off, 12 3 or 4 day weekends, SUMMERS off, personal time off, sick leave, early retirement, and on and on and on. Quit griping and teach our kids something already!

Here's the answer to those who claim long and loud that teachers have it good and get great pay and benefits all out of proportion to the work involved:

Become a teacher.

Chances are good that you too can enjoy the easy lifestyle of an educator. And new blood is definitely needed in most school districts. Go for it. It's my second career. And I think our schools should hire more folks with real-world work experience. It adds a needed perspective.
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:43 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,625 times
Reputation: 10
this is a interesting discussion. i believe that a teachers job is very important & should be respected. however when teachers complain about not being paid enough it drives me crazy. they say here in florida they start out with around 32,000.00 (ok not to much money for a 4 year degree) but teachers do not take into consideration all the time they get off. if they actually took the amount of hours they put in a year they probably get paid some where around 35.00 an hour.
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Finally back "home" in Ohio
620 posts, read 1,692,522 times
Reputation: 390
I think this thread is coming to the point where ALL points are just being repeated over and over again. Some posters are not reading the entire thread because it is SOOOOOOO long, therefore things are repeated. The circle in this will be never ending it seems.
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