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Old 10-26-2008, 12:56 PM
 
59 posts, read 164,409 times
Reputation: 40

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Killer, you have your facts way wrong. Many school districts really struggle to fill positions. It is hard to get a great science teacher when you are picking from 4-5 applicants. Also, 50% of teachers leave the profession within the first five years and that turnover rate is much higher than the vast majority of professions...
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Old 10-26-2008, 02:38 PM
 
Location: long beach, ca
115 posts, read 218,695 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by barco View Post
Killer, you have your facts way wrong. Many school districts really struggle to fill positions. It is hard to get a great science teacher when you are picking from 4-5 applicants. Also, 50% of teachers leave the profession within the first five years and that turnover rate is much higher than the vast majority of professions...
Additionally, while many suburban school districts may a surplus of applicants, urban and inner-city school districts usually struggle to find qualified teachers, and the turn-over rate in these areas is extremely high.
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Old 10-26-2008, 04:20 PM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,773 posts, read 2,768,762 times
Reputation: 2472
Default How about a little history?

I swear most folks seem to assume that nothing occurred in this world before they became involved in it.

The simple fact is that traditionally, teaching has been a female profession and females have traditionally been underpaid. For many years, nursing and teaching were THE fields for bright, career-minded women, and there was little else available. So, teaching got its share of exceptional females, even at the low pay scale it offered. Add to that, in more recent times, teaching was seen as a profession that the woman of the house went into in order for a family to have a second income. Both of these factors kept the pay and benefits low.

Well, America today isn't the America of 50 years ago.

With many more occupations now open to women, teaching no longer attracts the best and brightest women, as they have many more opportunities today. But teaching is still undervalued and underpaid.

I'm not a teacher, and I have no desire to be one. I do admire those who do a good job at it, though. It's an art, I'm convinced. And one that's undervalued to this day.
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Old 10-26-2008, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Central NJ
517 posts, read 1,277,706 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by raising3boys View Post
I think this thread is coming to the point where ALL points are just being repeated over and over again. Some posters are not reading the entire thread because it is SOOOOOOO long, therefore things are repeated. The circle in this will be never ending it seems.
Thanks for your post. It's tiring to keep saying the same thing.

The post before yours did just that. I almost answered it but luckily I looked down at yours- not going to bother- hopefully they'll go back and read the other, including the last on I posted.
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Old 10-26-2008, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Central NJ
517 posts, read 1,277,706 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52 View Post
I swear most folks seem to assume that nothing occurred in this world before they became involved in it.

The simple fact is that traditionally, teaching has been a female profession and females have traditionally been underpaid. For many years, nursing and teaching were THE fields for bright, career-minded women, and there was little else available. So, teaching got its share of exceptional females, even at the low pay scale it offered. Add to that, in more recent times, teaching was seen as a profession that the woman of the house went into in order for a family to have a second income. Both of these factors kept the pay and benefits low.

Well, America today isn't the America of 50 years ago.

With many more occupations now open to women, teaching no longer attracts the best and brightest women, as they have many more opportunities today. But teaching is still undervalued and underpaid.

I'm not a teacher, and I have no desire to be one. I do admire those who do a good job at it, though. It's an art, I'm convinced. And one that's undervalued to this day.
Now that is a different post. Nice to see a different perspective.
I agree with everything in your post.

Personally, I was torn between being a psychologist or a teacher. After looking into psychology, I decided that was the way to go. Then, as I was going to college I got a divorce. I changed majors because of all the years ahead for psychology in order to be a Ph.d. Not that I didn't have the will but I didn't have the time to devote to it since I had a baby at home and I had to good money (teacher compared to paraprofessional). I had to make that decision or I would still be in college. On the other side, my ex's career was not affected one bit and he is now making alot more than me. I'm happy for him but it shows how alot of times we (women and sometimes men) have to give something up because of different circumstances.

As far as being a teacher, I couldn't be happier. I love my job and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I don't complain about my salary (but who would refuse to make more). In my situation, I do love the security but, that doesn't mean I don't give it my all.
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Old 10-26-2008, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
96 posts, read 289,904 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMTeacher View Post
As far as being a teacher, I couldn't be happier. I love my job and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I don't complain about my salary (but who would refuse to make more). In my situation, I do love the security but, that doesn't mean I don't give it my all.
Well said.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:20 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,866 times
Reputation: 15
Angry Hater

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaCowboy View Post
Call a spade a spade. In most parts of the country, qualified applicants take more then 2 years to land a teaching job. That should tell you how "underpaid" they are. BS! Teachers only work a little over half the year, yet fetch a full years salary. They have lucrative retirement plans, health benefits and so on. Yet they act like they are working for Walmart wages. It's a total con-job projected by the strangle hold the liberal teacher's union has on our education system. Bad, horrible teachers are protected and never loose their jobs. It's is a JOKE! We have went from first to last and all the teachers scream for is year over year, more money and benefits.

In full disclosure, I am generalizing here. Some states offer far less pay and benefits, but as a whole, most teachers are very well compensated for their cushy, part time jobs!



My sister is a teacher. She laughs how easy it is all the time. She teaches the same course, laid out for her year after year. Has all the vacation time summers off, full coverage insurance, is home daily by 2:30 pm. You want to know what hard work is? Go be a plumber for a day, carpenter, nurse, floor installer, ups driver, and so on. Teachers go in for their 6-7 hour day, have weekends off, Christmass, off, Thanksgiving off, Spring break off, 12 3 or 4 day weekends, SUMMERS off, personal time off, sick leave, early retirement, and on and on and on. Quit griping and teach our kids something already!



Shame on you, who ever you really are. I don't know what your problem really is, but it is not with teachers. I don't know if you are smart enough to understand this, but teachers take their work home, mentally and physically. Maybe your sister only likes to pull your leg because she knows you have a tendency for "envy". Then obviously, you problem is not teachers and how much they get paid or how little or not work they have to do. I think your sister overstates her duties not just because you seem to be envious, but also because A- She might be just one of those teachers who doesn't care or B- It is just not so bad at her teaching job (slacker administration, in this case don't blame the teacher blame the school).

In anycase, teachers should get more or as much money as nurses, because they care just as much (most of them), and they take their work home. My sister is a teacher and I hold what she does (as well as the countless others with high regard) for their meaningful contribution to society. Teachers are the first level in building every and any society(esp successful ones). I do work in the health field and nurses do get way too much money (not that thier contributions aren't significant) and credit/rating. It's not like they are the only ones dealing with blood and guts and screaming doctors (--talk about cushy, most nurses benefit more from what OR and ER nurses alone should be getting, for doing almost nothing and knowing almost nothing).

My point is, unless you are there do not criticize. Don't criticize the profession or the people in it, because you have sibling issues.
In other words, keep you opinions to your self or tell it to your sister if you really have problem.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:40 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,866 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaCowboy View Post
Do not take this personal my friend, but I'm going to rip apart this post. It is the classic comeback and straw man's argument. I don't blame you, because in your world, all you know is one side of the coin. Now, view it factual from an outside perspective.

1. You work part time, because you only work a little over half the year when you tally up all the vacations! This does not even include personal time accumulated sick leave, early retirement options. Different states vary, but it is the norm. When I was in the restaurant bix, I worked 14 hours a day for often 30-35 days straight. There was no sick leave, summers off, going home at a certain time daily. This is how most of us work. Especially those running their own small business. Vacations come once every 2-3 years. We get shafted and hate hearing about teachers bragging about how grand their Christamas break or summer cruises were.

2. Perhaps in your state you fall under the state worker's benefit package, but not all states are that way. Where I used to reside, teachers threatened strike or went on strike for 8 consecutive years. Demanding year over year raises and better health care. Their health care, when I left was 100 full coverage across the board for them and their entire family! Even their children until age 25! Finally on the 9th year when they threatened yet another strike, the usual supporting public turned on them and in a bad way. They encountered full-time protesters to their demand under threat for raises and more benefits. People had enough.

3. The proof in in the pudding as they say. The average open union teaching position in this country fetches 380 qualified applicants! Every heard of supply and demand? If the job stinks so bad and is underpaid, then why the demand? Do you know how many applicants their are for elderly care positions? Negative 3! That is, there are three open positions nation wide for every applicant! Again, supply and demand tells us something about the job workload and actual pay.

4. Your diversion to parents would scream about schools open on holidays misses the point entirely. You, as a teacher get all that time off! Yet fetch a yearly salary and yearly benefits.

Teachers love their jobs because they are secure, know it is all but impossible to get fired, get sooooo many benefits and time off. It's an easy profession, plain and simple. 99% of teachers, simply teach the same redundant course year after year. It's simple and requires little to no innovation.

Now special ed teachers? They earn their money and again, the supply versus demand proves this! There is a nationwide shortage for special ed teachers. Why? Because they bust their behinds off and put up with a tom of stress on a daily and ongoing basis.
, yeah that means stop right there. You work in the restaurant industry. Well DON'T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY, but no wonder you have soooo much time to write these posts. Worried about teachers having too much time off??? Well obviously you do, you mentioned it about five times in your post.

No one told you to go into the restaurant industry, muchless to open your own business. If you were scared of hard work you should have left it up to someone with balls.

Obviously, you really do not know WHAT THE HELL you are talking about. You are not a teacher, your competition in is McDonalds, stick to your own business (as in your probably failing or failed restaurant venture).

And leave knowledge base to those who care about it.
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:00 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,773 posts, read 2,768,762 times
Reputation: 2472
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaCowboy View Post
Teachers love their jobs because they are secure, know it is all but impossible to get fired, get sooooo many benefits and time off. It's an easy profession, plain and simple. 99% of teachers, simply teach the same redundant course year after year. It's simple and requires little to no innovation.
Explain the fact that so many new teachers leave the field of education within their first three years, then.

Quote:
Now special ed teachers? They earn their money and again, the supply versus demand proves this! There is a nationwide shortage for special ed teachers. Why? Because they bust their behinds off and put up with a tom of stress on a daily and ongoing basis.

How is it that you know so much about special ed?
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Canada
48 posts, read 125,490 times
Reputation: 26
I'm new to this forum but what's with all the talk about how teaching is soooo hard!? I just started teaching h.s. math and it doesn't seem 'that' hard. Why is everyone complaining? So, you work 7hrs a day...big deal. For me, it's either medical school or teaching. Do you guys want to know how much my friends have to work? Let's just say it's NOWHERE close to 7hrs/day; more like 12-15hrs/day (and you 'might' get a day off during that week. Might...). Yes, doctors get paid a lot more than teachers but in the realm of things, I dont' think teachers should be complaing about how hard their job is.

Yes teachers have to deal w/ difficult students, parents and admin but doctors have to deal w/ difficult patients, insurance companies and admin. The 8-5 employees have to deal w/ clients, co-workers, their bosses, etc. Everyone has to deal w/ something/someone so I don't think teachers should be complaining about how hard their job is. I mean really, you get a heap load of vacation, you teach the same thing over and over again (lesson plans are NOT that hard. Just knock 'em out in about an hr...it's not rocket science! *sigh*) and you get summers off. How bad can that really be? From the looks of things, seeing as I'm teaching now, it doesn't seem that hard. Actually, it doesn't seem hard at all; it's a piece of cake and that's why I'm not sure if I'm going to pursue medicine. My thoughts are, "I can get a decent salary to do this and be home by 3pm everyday!?? I can have alllll of this vacation time??Hhhmmm."

I have 3 words for teachers who think their job is soooo hard: SUCK...IT...UP! Compare your job to other professions; it's a piece of cake. Trust me...

Last edited by ArtisticAthlete; 11-28-2008 at 11:08 AM.. Reason: Suck it up!
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