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Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,080,865 times
Reputation: 3937
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My daughter (5th grade) attends the same grade school that I attended (on and off between moves).The school had 1 full time cook,2 part time cooks,1 janitor (the older boys took all the trash out from each class room at the end of the day),1 principal,1 secretary,1 teacher for each class k-8,1 part time playground supervisor/lunch room attendant and 1 library attendant.18 or so on staff for up to 375 students
The school fluctuated between 350 - 375 students.Rudiments were stressed and no BS was tolerated and unless you were prepared for swats,none was given to an adult and there were NO second warnings or "time outs".The school was deathly quiet while classes were in session and you never saw anyone in the halls other than during recess or lunch and the kids you saw were on their way out to the playground,back to class or to and from the lunch room.A teacher could tell you without a seconds hesitation where one of their students were(99.9% of the time the student was right in front of him/her) and if the student happened to be absent WHY they were not there.
The Principal was NOT your friend by any stretch of the imagination.He was there for disciplinary actions and running the day to day operation and business of that particular school.When he walked the halls he commanded respect and got it in full.SAT scores in this school were some of the best in the nation with a much higher than national average of grads going on to higher education and very successful lives. Other than us redneck kids fist fighting over kid things every so often,it was as safe a place as you could ever hope for.It was a well organised school and you either learned or you went home at night with a busted butt,a tear stained face and a extra helping of the same when you got home that night.
Flash forward to today......The attendance is down to around 200-250,but the staff is now SEVERAL times larger..Add 2 pre K teachers,8 teacher's aids,1 full time nurse (that's absolutely worthless because she can't even dispense an aspirin)2 more janitors(the school is the same size it was in 1912 with far less students) 4 secretarys/receptionists(they nearly sit in each others laps),a full time gym teacher(we were taught by the teacher from the class we were in) 1 music teacher and her aid,2 more full time cooks,2 special ed teachers (without an assigned room and who all I've seen do is roam the halls visiting with other teachers outside their class rooms while class is in session) 1 crossing guard,4 part time playground supers/lunchroom attendants,2 parent/school liason officers(WTH?????),a D.A.R.E. cop and several others who I don't even know what their function is other than being related to a school board member.This doesn't include coaches and several other volunteers.Well over 50 people on the payroll for 200-250 students.INCREDIBLE!!!
BS is now the order of the day and chaos reigns supreme.When I go there during school hours I can't even get through the halls because of kids running around WHILE CLASS IS IN SESSION!Children roam all over the place and the teachers do too.When I go there to pick my daughter up early for any reason,they hardly EVER know where she is at the moment because she helps out in kindergarten and pre K or running errands for the office or helping out in the gym!!!During class I might add.WHY??? She doesn't want me saying anything to them because she enjoys it so much.
The Principal is their best friend,always high fiving and grinning very dopey like and the words "Man,dude,sugar,honey and buddy" roll out of his mouth as he's talking to the kids and in the meantime,we've had at least 2 sexual assaults by students on students (that the public is aware of and GOD himself only knows how many swept under the rug) and daily fights and disruptions are the order of the day during his time here.You can't help but like the guy,but he would be more suited to a 1st grade teaching position and would be were it not for the fact that his dad is well up the ladder in local school politics.
Classroom teaching now relies heavily on videos and the computer(my daughter out types my speed like you wouldn't believe.As I sit here one fingered pecking this post out.lol).She is an a-/b+ student who knows more about science,sociology and the animal world that most people graduating with a degree did 15 years ago,but she can't read a road map(I was taught in the 3rd grade),discussing AMERICAN history with her is like talking to someone who just landed on this planet(Little Bighorn???What's that dad.This from an A student in history).She can tell you the moon phases,the gestation period of every mammal under the sun but she's totally clueless about WW I,II,the Korean conflict,Nam,Gulf war and Iraq.She can tell you the most minute detail about a volcano or earthquake,but she can't write a check and knows less than zero about the banking system(I learned this in the 4th grade).Is it just our school that is now a circus???Am I just getting old and out of touch with the things our children need to know? What gives here in this new,politically correct world? Are we not to discuss wars any longer? Are we to count on GPS vs map reading skills? Are we to use credit cards and debit cards so checks will be obsolete? Help me out folks as I really am concerned about this issue and if it's just in my area.
Last edited by Swampmonster; 10-22-2008 at 08:50 AM..
Reason: brain flatulence
Just a comment about the checks...writing checks IS obsolete. I hate getting stuck behind some backwards fogey in the grocery store that painstakingly writes out a check to pay instead of using their debit card. It's not the 1980s anymore, get rid of the check book!
So your kid can't write a check, no big deal. She doesn't NEED to be able to do that.
What a GREAT post. I am so with you on most everything you stated. (I do support the addition of Art, Gym, Special Education Services and a crossing guard.) Everything else sounds so overinflated and ridiculous. You got reps from me on this one! BTW, whereabouts do you live?
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,080,865 times
Reputation: 3937
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja
What a GREAT post. I am so with you on most everything you stated. (I do support the addition of Art, Gym, Special Education Services and a crossing guard.) Everything else sounds so overinflated and ridiculous. You got reps from me on this one! BTW, whereabouts do you live?
Thank you...Southern IL.I agree with you on the needed additions and they were welcomed here.But the rest of the dead weight is just that,dead weight.The gym teacher is a wonderful guy and he takes great care to make sure ALL get to participate.What bothers me is the bloat and chaos inside this school.It is surreal to walk in there now and remember how it was just one generation ago.I've seen children arguing back and the teacher actually losing the argument and just things like that tend to bother me.Rep to you too!
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,080,865 times
Reputation: 3937
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi
Just a comment about the checks...writing checks IS obsolete. I hate getting stuck behind some backwards fogey in the grocery store that painstakingly writes out a check to pay instead of using their debit card. It's not the 1980s anymore, get rid of the check book!
So your kid can't write a check, no big deal. She doesn't NEED to be able to do that.
I agree with you and I just kind of threw that in the mix because her and I discussed it the other day.We own a convience store in a neighboring town and I do the majority of the purchasing for it, so I know EXACTLY what you mean about being in line behind a check writer as it happens to me SEVERAL times per week and I'm always running behind.I deal mostly in cash or if I write a check I have it filled out before going in the store with only the amount left blank and it still secured in the binder.I do not believe in credit cards and really have not messed with a debit as we are a business account and checks make excellent receipts for the accountants.I do understand your point tho'.
My daughter (5th grade) attends the same grade school that I attended (on and off between moves).The school had 1 full time cook,2 part time cooks,1 janitor (the older boys took all the trash out from each class room at the end of the day),1 principal,1 secretary,1 teacher for each class k-8,1 part time playground supervisor/lunch room attendant and 1 library attendant.18 or so on staff for up to 375 students
The school fluctuated between 350 - 375 students.Rudiments were stressed and no BS was tolerated and unless you were prepared for swats,none was given to an adult and there were NO second warnings or "time outs".The school was deathly quiet while classes were in session and you never saw anyone in the halls other than during recess or lunch and the kids you saw were on their way out to the playground,back to class or to and from the lunch room.A teacher could tell you without a seconds hesitation where one of their students were(99.9% of the time the student was right in front of him/her) and if the student happened to be absent WHY they were not there.
The Principal was NOT your friend by any stretch of the imagination.He was there for disciplinary actions and running the day to day operation and business of that particular school.When he walked the halls he commanded respect and got it in full.SAT scores in this school were some of the best in the nation with a much higher than national average of grads going on to higher education and very successful lives. Other than us redneck kids fist fighting over kid things every so often,it was as safe a place as you could ever hope for.It was a well organised school and you either learned or you went home at night with a busted butt,a tear stained face and a extra helping of the same when you got home that night.
Flash forward to today......The attendance is down to around 200-250,but the staff is now SEVERAL times larger..Add 2 pre K teachers,8 teacher's aids,1 full time nurse (that's absolutely worthless because she can't even dispense an aspirin)2 more janitors(the school is the same size it was in 1912 with far less students) 4 secretarys/receptionists(they nearly sit in each others laps),a full time gym teacher(we were taught by the teacher from the class we were in) 1 music teacher and her aid,2 more full time cooks,2 special ed teachers (without an assigned room and who all I've seen do is roam the halls visiting with other teachers outside their class rooms while class is in session) 1 crossing guard,4 part time playground supers/lunchroom attendants,2 parent/school liason officers(WTH?????),a D.A.R.E. cop and several others who I don't even know what their function is other than being related to a school board member.This doesn't include coaches and several other volunteers.Well over 50 people on the payroll for 200-250 students.INCREDIBLE!!!
BS is now the order of the day and chaos reigns supreme.When I go there during school hours I can't even get through the halls because of kids running around WHILE CLASS IS IN SESSION!Children roam all over the place and the teachers do too.When I go there to pick my daughter up early for any reason,they hardly EVER know where she is at the moment because she helps out in kindergarten and pre K or running errands for the office or helping out in the gym!!!During class I might add.WHY??? She doesn't want me saying anything to them because she enjoys it so much.
The Principal is their best friend,always high fiving and grinning very dopey like and the words "Man,dude,sugar,honey and buddy" roll out of his mouth as he's talking to the kids and in the meantime,we've had at least 2 sexual assaults by students on students (that the public is aware of and GOD himself only knows how many swept under the rug) and daily fights and disruptions are the order of the day during his time here.You can't help but like the guy,but he would be more suited to a 1st grade teaching position and would be were it not for the fact that his dad is well up the ladder in local school politics.
Classroom teaching now relies heavily on videos and the computer(my daughter out types my speed like you wouldn't believe.As I sit here one fingered pecking this post out.lol).She is an a-/b+ student who knows more about science,sociology and the animal world that most people graduating with a degree did 15 years ago,but she can't read a road map(I was taught in the 3rd grade),discussing AMERICAN history with her is like talking to someone who just landed on this planet(Little Bighorn???What's that dad.This from an A student in history).She can tell you the moon phases,the gestation period of every mammal under the sun but she's totally clueless about WW I,II,the Korean conflict,Nam,Gulf war and Iraq.She can tell you the most minute detail about a volcano or earthquake,but she can't write a check and knows less than zero about the banking system(I learned this in the 4th grade).Is it just our school that is now a circus???Am I just getting old and out of touch with the things our children need to know? What gives here in this new,politically correct world? Are we not to discuss wars any longer? Are we to count on GPS vs map reading skills? Are we to use credit cards and debit cards so checks will be obsolete? Help me out folks as I really am concerned about this issue and if it's just in my area.
I just wanted to add my two cents.
You may be remembering exactly how many people it took to run the school back in your day incorrectly. You were, after all, a child, and memory is a faulty science at best.
That being said, I think that there have been increases in the amount of people it takes to make a school run. I know when I was in elementary school we had only one teacher for 28-30 students, now having a teacher's aid in most classrooms tends to be the norm, for safety sake.
Also, some of the people that you mentioned as working in the school are either part time positions and some are not actually school employees. The DARE officer and the crossing guard are probably town/city employees and their jobs are part time at best.
As for the curriculum descrepincies, I think it just depends on the program that the school is now using. My daughter's homeschoool curriculum teaches check writing in the 3rd grade math book, but I agree that check writing is a lost art and essentially a waste of time.
Everything your child is learning or not learning also depends on how much time they spend learning about real things as a opposed to having that time eaten up by preparing for mandatory and unnecessary standardized tests.
And speaking of standardized tests, you mentioned that this school's SAT scores were the best in the nation, but I don't know of any school that has SATs in elementary school.
I am not trying to be argumentative, but I also find it hard to believe that their have been 2 sexual ASSAULTS in this school that you know of. Assault implies a rape, maybe 2 incidences of sexual misconduct or sexual harassment would be more truthful?
I think that the bottom line is that schools have changed since we have all attended elementary school. Some of those changes will be for the better and many will probably make things worse. It sucks, but that is life.
You may be remembering exactly how many people it took to run the school back in your day incorrectly. You were, after all, a child, and memory is a faulty science at best.
That being said, I think that there have been increases in the amount of people it takes to make a school run. I know when I was in elementary school we had only one teacher for 28-30 students, now having a teacher's aid in most classrooms tends to be the norm, for safety sake.
Also, some of the people that you mentioned as working in the school are either part time positions and some are not actually school employees. The DARE officer and the crossing guard are probably town/city employees and their jobs are part time at best.
As for the curriculum descrepincies, I think it just depends on the program that the school is now using. My daughter's homeschoool curriculum teaches check writing in the 3rd grade math book, but I agree that check writing is a lost art and essentially a waste of time.
Everything your child is learning or not learning also depends on how much time they spend learning about real things as a opposed to having that time eaten up by preparing for mandatory and unnecessary standardized tests.
And speaking of standardized tests, you mentioned that this school's SAT scores were the best in the nation, but I don't know of any school that has SATs in elementary school.
I am not trying to be argumentative, but I also find it hard to believe that their have been 2 sexual ASSAULTS in this school that you know of. Assault implies a rape, maybe 2 incidences of sexual misconduct or sexual harassment would be more truthful?
I think that the bottom line is that schools have changed since we have all attended elementary school. Some of those changes will be for the better and many will probably make things worse. It sucks, but that is life.
Wow. Picky. Picky. Have you ever heard of Poetic License? The OP painted a great picture with this post that made a point I happen to agree with even if not with every detail!
Wow. Picky. Picky. Have you ever heard of Poetic License? The OP painted a great picture with this post that made a point I happen to agree with even if not with every detail!
Picky, picky. Or, unintentional embellishment? It's all ends at the same point in the road. Education today has taken a back seat to protection from lawsuits and securing government funding (however stupid the rules may be). The world seems to only understand extremes, and the only gray you see is the stuff sitting in nursing home wheelchairs. What USA education NEEDS is to bring back the Teacher First model. If students can't keep up, either find out why they can't and HELP the student, or put the student in an easier class. Education needs to come first, though.
Well Muleskinner...I'm with you on this one...gave you a couple of reps...well worded post. I'm a little older then you as I go back to the 30's in grade school. Was in one room three yrs. K1,1st grade,2nd grade all in the same room with the same teacher Miss Near. Two rows of K1, three rows of 1st grade, one row of 2nd grade. Some rows had a partial mix of graders due to the number involved. Some 2nd graders were in another class with 3rd graders. You can imagine what the teach went thru during the day, going from one grade level to another etc. We were allowed to walk home for lunch hr at 12 noon...be back by 1:15 or 1:30 the latest. No teachers aide, one teacher took turns in the playground, no crossing guard at the hwy next to school, no truient officier. One principal who administered punishment via a leather strap on the behind. Teacher would use a ruler across the palm of the hand which turned red and stung. Today this would be called torture. Many old ways yes, but we survived and turned out well and are honest individuals (adults). Steve
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,080,865 times
Reputation: 3937
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2girlsand2boys
I just wanted to add my two cents.
You may be remembering exactly how many people it took to run the school back in your day incorrectly. You were, after all, a child, and memory is a faulty science at best.
That being said, I think that there have been increases in the amount of people it takes to make a school run. I know when I was in elementary school we had only one teacher for 28-30 students, now having a teacher's aid in most classrooms tends to be the norm, for safety sake.
Also, some of the people that you mentioned as working in the school are either part time positions and some are not actually school employees. The DARE officer and the crossing guard are probably town/city employees and their jobs are part time at best.
As for the curriculum descrepincies, I think it just depends on the program that the school is now using. My daughter's homeschoool curriculum teaches check writing in the 3rd grade math book, but I agree that check writing is a lost art and essentially a waste of time.
Everything your child is learning or not learning also depends on how much time they spend learning about real things as a opposed to having that time eaten up by preparing for mandatory and unnecessary standardized tests.
And speaking of standardized tests, you mentioned that this school's SAT scores were the best in the nation, but I don't know of any school that has SATs in elementary school.
I am not trying to be argumentative, but I also find it hard to believe that their have been 2 sexual ASSAULTS in this school that you know of. Assault implies a rape, maybe 2 incidences of sexual misconduct or sexual harassment would be more truthful?
I think that the bottom line is that schools have changed since we have all attended elementary school. Some of those changes will be for the better and many will probably make things worse. It sucks, but that is life.
The DARE officer is county and the crossing guard is employed by the school system.Glad to see the crossing guard for the town kids.The DARE officer from last year was pretty much worthless and spent the VAST majority of his time at the convenience store talking to the girls working there and stink eyeing everyone else( think the fat guy on Super Troopers and you have him and his actions pretty well nailed).We laughed at him constantly as he was quite the Barney Fife character.The new one I haven't even seen this year yet, but I hope he is a good one.Slim chance though.
I stick by my earlier statement on the number of employees.You had me thinking maybe I was off,so I called a couple of friends and without leading them I asked them to count off everyone who worked at the school when we graduated...One said 19 ( I HAD forgotten a remedial reading teacher who was replaced with a speech therapist the following year.The other said 15 because the reading teacher was part time as was a traveling music teacher who came in twice a week.He also did not count the part time cooks or lunchroom super because she wasn't full time either.
I WAS wrong on the SAT thing(just the name of the test)...I just talked to my daughter and they are ISAT tests which is a form of SAT for our state and to my understanding they are standard for several states and checked up against children from those other states. Not ALL states participate.This is according to her teacher.I'm with you tho' on memory being a faulty science and as time goes it's beyond faulty.LOL
As for the sexual assault...I know what it was and I stick by my statement.There are also two young boys a year older than my daughter who were charged with this same crime against a girl my daughters age here in town just 3 months ago.Without getting into it any further than necessary,it was sexual assault too.All children involved no longer go to this school and it has been very quiet on details as far as what the courts are going to do and no mention of it at all on the local news.This is a meth area (as is MOST of the country now) and some sickening crap happens around here.I imagine it happens everywhere,but we just hear about the local stuff.
I agree with your last statement,things sure have changed in the last couple of decades and I don't really see the better side of it yet nor do I forsee it being better in the near future.We do our best to teach her everything she NEEDS to know at home and try to pass our values on to her to learn and be responsible for her own actions.So far so good.
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