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If a small school can implement g/t with resource and NORMAL school curriculum then by all means, have all the kids go to the same school. If it can't be attained without parents of g/t kids crying injustice then yes, private school them. The requirement of our schools is to maintain a certain level of standards. Not create new levels of standards for certain kids and lower teaching standards in order to lower education standards for the rest of the "average" or "lower than average" kids. I am just wanting our school to stop putting so much emphasis on the g/t program and open their eyes to other problems/issues.
I think that is the point you may be missing. The standards have been lowered over several decades....G&T isn't creating a NEW standard, it is more often putting the standard back where it should be in the first place. If anything, I would be in favor of eliminating some of the lower level classes and expecting kids to achieve higher standards before considering getting rid of G&T. If you are going to spend money, resources and time it should be towards the goal of excellence, not mediocrity. Actually, I will defer back to the option of placing kids according to ability rather than grade/age and eliminate most of the SpEd and G&T programs.
OP, you are right to some extent, I do care more about my own kids than all the kids in general. That's my job as a parent. I think we have seen the results of lowering the expectations to attempt to bring up those at the bottom of the spectrum and now the entire system functions at lower levels. That isn't good for anyone, especially not good for those at the bottom. We have more SpEd and kids who are behind than ever before!! I'm not in favor of eliminating any option that allows kids to excel beyond the average, even if their parents use it to brag.
Standards in educations are appalling. It's the dumbing down of the U.S.A. From the news to the schools everything is being dumbed down.
My daughter went to private for many years. We moved states and decided to try out a public school since it was considered "A" school and in a nice area. After a month we decided to pull her out and put her back in private! Even though she was in the highest honors classes they offered, she was so unchallenged and bored beyond belief! I pay $9000 in property taxes for this!?
I'm not sure if G&T classes are the answer, just raising the curriculum overall would be better. If our expectations are low, then performance will be low. We need to expect more academically from the schools and children.
G/t students already have the knowledge and skills needed for potential success. There are schools across the nation with 10th graders reading at a 3rd grade level and you have the gall to say that g/t students deserve justice?
Don't ALL students, brighter and slower deserve an education that is appropriate to them? I don't think we need to compare one to the other. What we need to do is provide EACH with an education that is approrpriate for them. EACH CHILD, regardless of ability should be receiving an education that allows them to be thier best. If that means one child needs enrichment and another needs remediation then EACH should get what they need.
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo
Oh, by the way, there are programs outside of school for g/t students to challenge them and give them the justice they apparently deserve. These programs do not cost anything. Is your child going to die without the g/t program? Probably not. Will he/she still attain the skills needed to go to college, get a job, balance a checkbook or even just survive without the program? Probably so. Sounds to me like you, the mommy might be the one to curl up and die.
Wow. I am not exactly sure what made you so angry today. Students should not have to go outside of their local school system to get an appropriate education. The general pubic pays school taxes and those taxes are meant to be used to educated all of the children. Not just the bright ones and not just the slow ones. ALL OF THEM.
Nobody is going to die without a gifted program. But nobody is going to die without a remedial program either.
This is our schools first year with the G&T program. From what I am told, it is now a state requirement, we are in Montana. My concern is that we now have a program for the gifted and talented kids who, obviously are doing quite well as it is. We have special education and resource for the kids who struggle. What do schools have for the kids in the middle? The kids who aren't quite gifted but don't require resource or special education. These kids are just kind of floating through school not knowing exactly where they belong. Isn't this kind of "segregation" harmful to kids self-esteem? The emphasis seems to be on the kids in the special programs and not on the kids in the regular classroom. I agree that schools should have resource room available to kids who struggle but to have another program is ridiculus. Use the funds for the kids who need it most. For the record, one of my children qualified for the gifted and talented program but my husband and I refused to have him tested. We would rather see school funding used for useful programs not programs to boost parent "bragging rights".
Just curious. How did your child "qualify" for the gifted/talented program without being tested? Testing (along with strong teacher recommendations) is how you "qualify" for the G/T program at our school. Students must attain a score of 97% or higher on a nationally normed reading or math test to even be considered.
This discussion is starting to lean towards "my g/t talented kid is more deserving or better" area.
I don't see that. Can you point out a particular post where that is said?
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo
I'm seeing a problem in our school with the g/t program. We have a new prinicipal (she got the g/t program up and running). Our kids in the resource rooms who, for the most part have no parental involvement are going downhill and fast. I don't have a child in resource or sped but I care deeply for all of the students in our school.
It sounds like you only care for the slow kids.
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo
Small town thing. Our g/t program is a hush hush, secret society that consists of the majority of faculty members children. The program is never discussed with the "average" community members.
Why should the gifted program be discussed with anyone except the families affected? Is the remedial program discussed with parents whose children are not in the program? It shouldn't be.
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo
I was actually badgered to allow more testing and to let him attend the g/t program. I declined because 1) I didn't want the label on my son
Why wouldn't you want a descriptive label put on your son? Labels tell us a lot about something. If I had a bottle with a dark liquid in it a label would tell me if that dark label was soy sauce, motor oil, or coke. There is nothing inherent better or worse between those three dark liquids, but it is very useful knowing what they are. That's all a label does. It doesn't make a kid good, bad, or anything else. It just tells the people who deal with him what characteristics he posseses.
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo
We are not holding our son back by any means. He is in the science program in a neighboring town, exceeds in cub scouts, and belongs to a technology club. He continues to excell even without the g/t program. I feel that our schools responsibility is teach every student with a certain amount of accountability.
You are holding your son back. Just because he excels where he is it doesn't mean he couldn't learn EVEN MORE than he is learning now. Yes-it is your school's responsibility to teach all the kids. The brighter ones are included.
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo
There are standards in which each student is expected to attain. EVERY student should be expected and encouraged to attain this and the school should do everything they can to help the student.
Yes but the standard is the minimum. There is no reason to put a ceiling on what the smartest kids can do and that is what you do if you limit teaching to the standard of the average student. I agree that schools should help struggling students acheive the standard, but the brightest kids should not be held down to that standard if they are capable of learning more.
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo
Our school seems to be more interested in the g/t students than the resource kids now. They have the attitude, "Well, they aren't going to learn, we've done all we can." What happened to being devoted to teaching? Caring about all students not just a select few?
This is a problem with your school not with gifted programs.
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo
I have two kids (my other two are graduated) in this school and I care about every student there, not just my two. It shouldn't matter if a child is average,g/t or struggling in resource, they all deserve the best that our schools can offer.
I agree, but I don't see how eliminating gifted programs achieves this objective.
I think the question is really about how a school district should allocate its limited resources. If the resource kids, or the "average" kids aren't getting their piece of the pie, should the G/T program be cut, or the football program? Is there an orchestra or choir? Are they necessary? What about the administration--is it top heavy? Could the district do without two administrators and add two classroom teachers? These are choices district personnel and school boards have to make all the time.
I'm not sure why you've got the GT program in your sites, but I doubt if it's the sole reason that other kids and programs aren't getting the attention you believe they need.
For the record, I have a daughter in a magnet GT school and I'm thrilled that they have it. In kindergarten the teacher had her testing the other kids on their Dolch words. She enjoyed that, but I didn't think it was fair to her and knew it was just a matter of time until she got bored and started hating school. Also, while there are a few sort of "genius" kids at her school, most of them are there because they have very involved parents who did a lot of reading and talking to them and tried to get them ready for school and now stress the importance of school and making sure they do their homework. Why should they then have to sit through repetitious lessons for kids whose parents don't do that? We're all taxpayers.
My son is G/T. He's been in GT since Kindergarten & my experience is that the whole G/T thing (at least in the schools he's been to) is a joke. It's basically play on the computer time.
The school administrators & teachers always tell me they KNOW he's not being challenged at school, but do they do anything about it? Nope. He's bored & they know it, but they only care about the kids that are "behind" & TAKS test scores.
Hubby & I were both in G/T but it was nothing like it is now. "Back then" it was actually a worthwhile program, now it just seems to be an extra recess for the smart kids.
And NO, the G/T parents are NOT the "bragging" kind. I see THOSE parents at the "regular" school and it just floors me. They are just flat out UGLY and cruel. The parents at the G/T school are AWESOME and caring. We are WAY more open w/ each other when we "vent" to each other about our kids "flaws" or "problems". At the regular school.......... OHMYGOSH! Those parents will cut another kid down faster than you can count to 1.
BTW, you might check w/ your district but MOST districts get EXTRA funds for having a G/T program.
Well, your district must be different than the ones I am familiar with. There's lots of keeping up (or passing up) the Joneses in most of the public schools my kids were in re: G and T.
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Originally Posted by raising3boys
I think it depends on how it is run.
The one thing that floors me is ...If only 2% of the entire population is GIFTED....then boy do we have one VERY bright nation right now coming up because SO many kids are labeled GIFTED.
Both of my kids are supposedly labeled "gifted" by their IQs. One has qualified for mensa. My dh and I sure do not think our kids are GIFTED. They are very bright and we are proud of them, but we do not think they are truly GIFTED.
I was looking up the stats on this and you are correct. So that means in an elementary school of 600 kids, there are about 12 truly gifted kids. Yet some schools such as the one quoted below, have 40% of the kids in G and T programs. I would bet that at least that many parents think their child is "gifted".
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763
Timely discussion with this article from the Washington Post this week. Quick summary - Montgomery County schools in MD are doing away with the gifted label. Something like 40% of the students in this system are labeled gifted.
"The aim is "to get away from this idea of putting kids in boxes and saying, 'You're gifted, and you're not,' " said Marty Creel, who directs the school system's Department of Enriched and Innovative Programs. "
The article talks about doing away with the label rather than doing away with enrichment programs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5kingsinvegas
And yes, I am the mom who thought it was ridiculous that every one on the soccer team got a "particiapation" trophy even though they did not win a single game.
Why do you have an issue with this? Shouldn't we encourage all kids to try sports, especially when they are quite young? My kids did competitive gymnastics, and everyone got a participation ribbon. There's nothing wrong with that. The ones who excel know who they are and are the ones who make it to the state championships, etc. Let the others have something too, for Pete's sake!
All I can say after reading some of the responses on here is just WOW! For one I could literally kiss the ground of the city we live in for having a totally different approach to G/T education. One where the kids are actually CHALLENGED and LEARNING! One where they actually even break the G/T kids up based on their ACADEMIC ability in EACH subject from 1st grade on. I guess my district IS different. I can honestly say that with a child in each school (neighborhood school and G/T magnet school) there IS a HUGE difference when it comes to academics. I think I'll go hug the principal at her school tomorrow and send a really nice Christmas gift to our Superintendent and the G/T coordinator after reading some of these posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja
Just curious. How did your child "qualify" for the gifted/talented program without being tested? Testing (along with strong teacher recommendations) is how you "qualify" for the G/T program at our school. Students must attain a score of 97% or higher on a nationally normed reading or math test to even be considered.
This sounds more like what our testing is based on. They only take the cream of the cream of the crop. A teacher just saying they are "gifted" or a parent trying to "coach" their child is NOT going to get a student into the G/T program here.
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Originally Posted by Momma_bear
It sounds like you only care for the slow kids.
Sadly, I see a LOT of these at my youngest daughters school.
Why should the gifted program be discussed with anyone except the families affected? Is the remedial program discussed with parents whose children are not in the program? It shouldn't be.
EXACTLY! As a matter of fact whenever a parent at our neighborhood school hears that my oldest attends the G/T magnet they are usually clueless about what goes on w/in the walls of it. The neighborhood school where my youngest attends has the parents that are the bragerts and such. So much so that they have gotten to the point they literally RUN THE SCHOOL! I even told the principal in a meeting in so many words he needs to "grow a set" and kick them all out. I do NOT interfere w/ how a school operates and functions. BUT, I have a HUGE problem w/ parents that are constantly up there trying to run things and GETTING THEIR WAY! When it comes to academics this school is subpar and it is in a wealthy area w/ the overwhelming majority of the parents all college educated professionals. The thing is they want their kids to be "the best" without having to do any of the work. At my oldest daughers magnet schools the projects were all done in school or in a way that made it absolutely impossible for a parent to have their hands in it. At the neigborhood school the parents FIGHT over the science fair projects. It is horrible to say the least.
Okay, back to these parents that don't know about the magnet and look down their noses at it. When one neighborhood girl received and invitation her mom asked another mom. Then she came to me as she found out I had a child there. The OTHER mother (a teacher) told her that ALL of the middle schools have the EXACT SAME CLASSES. That ALL of them offer "honors" classes. Yes, they do offer "honors" classes. Difference is at the magnet school all the kids that qualify for it are in "ENRICHED HONORS" that is far and away AHEAD of the regular "honors" classes. They seriously DO NOT KNOW what goes on in these schools. If they really did they would be envious and would WANT all of the schools to be like this.
Oh, and the parents of ANY child do NOT know what the kids in the G/T schools scored to get into them. That is all confidential.
Why wouldn't you want a descriptive label put on your son? Labels tell us a lot about something.
You are holding your son back. Just because he excels where he is it doesn't mean he couldn't learn EVEN MORE than he is learning now. Yes-it is your school's responsibility to teach all the kids. The brighter ones are included.
I see this all of the time. I have yet to figure out the logic behind it. As the mother of a truly gifted child academically I have seen firsthand how holding a child back CAN harm them. After that experience even though it was not school related I REFUSE to put ANY kind of restraint on my children.
Yes but the standard is the minimum. There is no reason to put a ceiling on what the smartest kids can do and that is what you do if you limit teaching to the standard of the average student. I agree that schools should help struggling students acheive the standard, but the brightest kids should not be held down to that standard if they are capable of learning more.
EXACTLY!!!!! Why should the brightest of the brightest NOT be allowed to excel and grow in their academic knowledge. There is a child my oldest has gone to school w/ since kindergarten. When it comes to math this kid is a TRUE whiz. The schools nor the district or his parents have held him back. This year the parents take him to the IB high school in our district for a math course. Then bring him afterwards back to the middle school campus for the rest of his academic courses. If a student shows they demonstrate the ability to do such they are given the rights to such. To tell a child that they are NOT allowed to take any courses above what their peers are capable of is dangerous.
This is a problem with your school not with gifted programs.
AGREED!
I agree, but I don't see how eliminating gifted programs achieves this objective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow
For the record, I have a daughter in a magnet GT school and I'm thrilled that they have it. In kindergarten the teacher had her testing the other kids on their Dolch words. She enjoyed that, but I didn't think it was fair to her and knew it was just a matter of time until she got bored and started hating school. Also, while there are a few sort of "genius" kids at her school, most of them are there because they have very involved parents who did a lot of reading and talking to them and tried to get them ready for school and now stress the importance of school and making sure they do their homework. Why should they then have to sit through repetitious lessons for kids whose parents don't do that? We're all taxpayers.
I can honestly say that we did not drill our G/T child in order for her to get into the program in kindergarten. Most of the time when she did something at a very young age that amazed us we just blew it off. It was only after numerous friends in the education field kept telling us how smart she REALLY was that we decided to check into the program. Of course I stress to both of my kids the importance of school and make sure they do their homework. I make sure THEY do it as I've done my time and it is not MY homework to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnzFam
My son is G/T. He's been in GT since Kindergarten & my experience is that the whole G/T thing (at least in the schools he's been to) is a joke. It's basically play on the computer time.
The school administrators & teachers always tell me they KNOW he's not being challenged at school, but do they do anything about it? Nope. He's bored & they know it, but they only care about the kids that are "behind" & TAKS test scores.
Hubby & I were both in G/T but it was nothing like it is now. "Back then" it was actually a worthwhile program, now it just seems to be an extra recess for the smart kids.
One of those that really makes me appreciate the G/T program my daughter is in. She is TRULY in a district that DOES teach to the true G/T students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Well, your district must be different than the ones I am familiar with. There's lots of keeping up (or passing up) the Joneses in most of the public schools my kids were in re: G and T.
I guess it is a lot different. The neighborhood school is the absolute worst I've seen when it comes to the "keeping up with" syndrome. The G/T magnet is AWESOME w/ a lot of great really awesome parents that care that their child is getting a great education but don't meddle in the schools affairs like the parents at the other school do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5kingsinvegas And yes, I am the mom who thought it was ridiculous that every one on the soccer team got a "participation" trophy even though they did not win a single game.
[quote]
Why do you have an issue with this? Shouldn't we encourage all kids to try sports, especially when they are quite young? My kids did competitive gymnastics, and everyone got a participation ribbon. There's nothing wrong with that. The ones who excel know who they are and are the ones who make it to the state championships, etc. Let the others have something too, for Pete's sake!
The problem is so many parents have become so obsessed with their child's self esteem that we are raising a generation of children who never hear any criticism or experience any disappointment. No one can excel at every single thing they try. Once these children get older and start learning that they don't do everything perfect they don't have the tools to deal with rejection and disappointment. I am sorry, but a child does not need a trophy or ribbon simply for participation. When and if they do actually EARN a trophy or ribbon it diminishes the importance of it if they already have a closet full of "participation" awards.
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Why should the brightest of the brightest NOT be allowed to excel and grow in their academic knowledge. There is a child my oldest has gone to school w/ since kindergarten. When it comes to math this kid is a TRUE whiz. The schools nor the district or his parents have held him back. This year the parents take him to the IB high school in our district for a math course. Then bring him afterwards back to the middle school campus for the rest of his academic courses. If a student shows they demonstrate the ability to do such they are given the rights to such. To tell a child that they are NOT allowed to take any courses above what their peers are capable of is dangerous.
