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Just to jump in here, when I was in college a student in my dorm committed suicide because he received an 89% in a chemistry final. He was a perfectionist, obviously "gifted' all his life was on special programs, etc. He never learned to tolerate his own imperfections.
His main gift was his life, which he threw away. We all are "gifted" just to be alive each day. Sadly he never realized his true "gift" of life.
I avoided all this AP stuff. My kids highschool would let the kids out for a few hours to attend regular college classes nearby from the time they were freshman if they could get accepted, and that's what we did.
There was also something called 'Math Camp' which was held at the U of Toronto and accomodated school aged kids from around the world for an advanced summer program taught by some of the best mathematicians. That one got hired as the corp managing director of intl finance and never did finish college.
Lots of other things, including character building, I could supplement at home and in travels. Advanced math wasn't one of them even though it had too been my major in HS. It loses something over time if not used.
Just to jump in here, when I was in college a student in my dorm committed suicide because he received an 89% in a chemistry final. He was a perfectionist, obviously "gifted' all his life was on special programs, etc. He never learned to tolerate his own imperfections.
His main gift was his life, which he threw away. We all are "gifted" just to be alive each day. Sadly he never realized his true "gift" of life.
The presence or absence of programs for the gifted are not determinants for whether a person will learn to deal with perfectionism or not. Would that it were so simple.
Just to jump in here, when I was in college a student in my dorm committed suicide because he received an 89% in a chemistry final. He was a perfectionist, obviously "gifted' all his life was on special programs, etc. He never learned to tolerate his own imperfections.
His main gift was his life, which he threw away. We all are "gifted" just to be alive each day. Sadly he never realized his true "gift" of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher
The presence or absence of programs for the gifted are not determinants for whether a person will learn to deal with perfectionism or not. Would that it were so simple.
There are also plenty of "normal" kids or the very "popular" that get to college and all of a sudden they are not "popular" or what have you and they have just as many issues. College life is different for everyone.
Thankfully, our districts G&T program have the kids in some kind of fine art by the time they are in 4th grade. Many of them are into sports as well and come middle school the G&T academy has a pretty good athletic team. They still have to do a fine art be it band, choir, theatre or orchestra. Then in the high school IB program they must do a certain number of hours of community service. All throughout the program they are given all kinds of ways to help them explore "outside the box" and get some real world experiences. They are VERY well rounded students because of the positive attitude around them and the support of the school and parents. All of this can make a huge difference for any student for when they go off to college. If they are well rounded and been exposed to different things then when they get off to college they will be able to find that spot to "fit in" that is a positive. Which makes a HUGE difference in their college life experience.
College is different and it is when students first learn to cope without a parental support system around them 24/7. I know of one girl that was a cheerleader in her high school and very popular. She went off to one of the largest state universities and all of a sudden she wasn't popular any more. She was just a little fish in a great big pond and no one was ohing and ahing over her anymore. She gained about 30lbs by winter break and by the end of the first year she had hit over a weight gain of 60. She went to the doctor to get help for weight loss (her parents took her) and after asking her a multitude of questions realized she didn't need anything for weight loss. What she needed was something for depression. Point is there are kids from ALL walks that when they get to college can suffer from something and will do things that can harm them. Just because one person that was overly "ocd" or whathaveyou committed suicide does not mean that other G&T kids will do the same thing.
There are also plenty of "normal" kids or the very "popular" that get to college and all of a sudden they are not "popular" or what have you and they have just as many issues. College life is different for everyone.
Thankfully, our districts G&T program have the kids in some kind of fine art by the time they are in 4th grade. Many of them are into sports as well and come middle school the G&T academy has a pretty good athletic team. They still have to do a fine art be it band, choir, theatre or orchestra. Then in the high school IB program they must do a certain number of hours of community service. All throughout the program they are given all kinds of ways to help them explore "outside the box" and get some real world experiences. They are VERY well rounded students because of the positive attitude around them and the support of the school and parents. All of this can make a huge difference for any student for when they go off to college. 1) If they are well rounded and been exposed to different things then when they get off to college they will be able to find that spot to "fit in" that is a positive. Which makes a HUGE difference in their college life experience.
College is different and it is when students first learn to cope without a parental support system around them 24/7. I know of one girl that was a cheerleader in her high school and very popular. She went off to one of the largest state universities and all of a sudden she wasn't popular any more. She was just a little fish in a great big pond and no one was ohing and ahing over her anymore. She gained about 30lbs by winter break and by the end of the first year she had hit over a weight gain of 60. She went to the doctor to get help for weight loss (her parents took her) and after asking her a multitude of questions realized she didn't need anything for weight loss. What she needed was something for depression. Point is there are kids from ALL walks that when they get to college can suffer from something and will do things that can harm them. 2) Just because one person that was overly "ocd" or whathaveyou committed suicide does not mean that other G&T kids will do the same thing.
I agree with the bulk of what you have written here. I just want to take issue with the two bolded sentences:
1) Well rounded and exposed to diverse areas unfortunately does not translate automatically (or even close) to "able to find a spot to fit in..."
2) Perfectionism is not the same thing as obsessive-compulsive disorder (ocd), overly or otherwise.
I thnik its interesting to realise that their aren't many truely gifted children in the world. I watched a child that looked gifted being tested by scientist that do this kind of testing who had very very high IQ. In the end tho he was not found to be truely gifted at all but was just very smart compared to most children.IQ teat does not really test well enough to really determine being gifted apparently and I forget the numbers they have tested but it was very high and few were gifted. They talked about children that had original thoght beyond what they were taught as what marks gifted beyond educated.
I thnik its interesting to realise that their aren't many truely gifted children in the world. I watched a child that looked gifted being tested by scientist that do this kind of testing who had very very high IQ. In the end tho he was not found to be truely gifted at all but was just very smart compared to most children.IQ teat does not really test well enough to really determine being gifted apparently and I forget the numbers they have tested but it was very high and few were gifted. They talked about children that had original thoght beyond what they were taught as what marks gifted beyond educated.
I'm not sure what you mean.
By "aren't very many" do you have a rough percentage in mind?
What do you mean by "truely gifted?"
Defining gifted as those who have "original thought beyond what they were taught" is one way, I suppose, but to me it would only be one way of being gifted.
I thnik its interesting to realise that their aren't many truely gifted children in the world. I watched a child that looked gifted being tested by scientist that do this kind of testing who had very very high IQ. In the end tho he was not found to be truely gifted at all but was just very smart compared to most children.IQ teat does not really test well enough to really determine being gifted apparently and I forget the numbers they have tested but it was very high and few were gifted. They talked about children that had original thoght beyond what they were taught as what marks gifted beyond educated.
If learning beyond what you're taught is being gifted, then being gifted is the norm. Most of us do learn more than we're taught.
To me, gifted is when you get to the point you have to start making accomodations. My younger dd is, technically, gifted but she doesn't require accomodations. She's fine in a regular classroom with reasonable challenges. She is in honors math and science but that's only because the school happens to have those classes. I'm sure she would have done just fine in regular math and science too.
By "aren't very many" do you have a rough percentage in mind?
What do you mean by "truely gifted?"
Defining gifted as those who have "original thought beyond what they were taught" is one way, I suppose, but to me it would only be one way of being gifted.
There aren't many gifted because you have to fall within the top percentage of your age category. If only the top 2% are considered gifted, then yeah that means there aren't many compared to the general population. There are specific criteria to be considered gifted and standing above your peers is one of them.
I teach advanced math courses and most people would consider the students in there as being gifted in mathematics, but really out of 50 students only 6 of them have actually tested and recieved the Gifted and Talented classification. Doesn't mean the rest of them aren't smart.
Just to jump in here, when I was in college a student in my dorm committed suicide because he received an 89% in a chemistry final. He was a perfectionist, obviously "gifted' all his life was on special programs, etc. He never learned to tolerate his own imperfections.
Sadly, this is most likely to happen to students who have never been adequately challenged academically - even those who have been in "gifted programs," etc., are not always adequately challenged. When they finally get to the point where they actually have to work at learning, and the result is not immediately 100%, it comes as quite a shock because it challenges the self-concept they've been allowed to develop over 18+ years of always being perfect, or nearly so.
That's exactly why gifted students do not belong in the regular classroom, and why they need much more than the standard curriculum. They need the opportunity to have to struggle to learn at times just as much as any other student throughout the 13 years of K-12.
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