U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 01:05 PM
 
943 posts, read 1,690,730 times
Reputation: 645
Default If the best teachers in the country all taught at the worst underperforming ghetto school- would the students excel?

When students in poverty stricken ghetto schools fail most of the blame always goes to the teachers and principal. Very little official blame goes to our messed up culture, the parents, or the sweet little students. It is easier to blame the teachers and administrators.

I know there are some really bad teachers at some really bad schools, but I wonder if even the best teachers and principals could turn around some of the terrible under performing schools.

If the hundred best teachers in the country were assigned to teach at the worst school in America would there really be that much change?

Last edited by Weekend Traveler; 05-14-2009 at 02:21 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Unread 05-14-2009, 01:46 PM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,681 posts, read 2,324,457 times
Reputation: 2420
Default If the best teachers in the country all taught at the worst underperforming ghetto school- would the students excel?

It might make a slight difference, but not enough to be significant.

All of this standardized testing that's been the be-all and end-all over the past few years will just boil down to one valid conclusion: every school performs as well as the demographic it serves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 01:48 PM
 
8,131 posts, read 8,378,299 times
Reputation: 5430
absolutely not - there could be some improvement, but not a turnaround

the learning environment wouldn't be strong enough to create a mass success ...... you may dig out more diamonds from the rough though that really excell

without changing resources into a school, parental involvement and accountability and having community support and emphasis on education then it's really a steep uphill battle
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 02:20 PM
 
9,555 posts, read 9,540,111 times
Reputation: 8297
I think that demographics drive school performance far more than teachers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Sunny Florida
6,230 posts, read 5,865,652 times
Reputation: 6863
The best teachers could not make significant gains unless there was home support as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Hollywood)
174 posts, read 307,699 times
Reputation: 182
Demographics are THE single biggest factor to determine academic performance. Check out a map of high schools in Los Angeles County. The A.P.I. will increase as the distance from South Central LA also increases. It is absolutely predictable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 704,757 times
Reputation: 1298
Ever seen Dangerous Minds or Stand and Deliver? Those are both true stories about great teachers in bad schools who DID make a difference.

Great teachers will make a difference regardless of the demographics. That being said, it would make more of a difference to put good teachers in bad schools than bad teachers in good schools.

Take the students at Phillips Exeter and give them crappy teachers and they're still the cream of the crop, from families pushing for college and a school with nearly unlimited resources.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 04:43 PM
 
22,502 posts, read 17,022,883 times
Reputation: 5068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Traveler View Post
When students in poverty stricken ghetto schools fail most of the blame always goes to the teachers and principal. Very little official blame goes to our messed up culture, the parents, or the sweet little students. It is easier to blame the teachers and administrators.

I know there are some really bad teachers at some really bad schools, but I wonder if even the best teachers and principals could turn around some of the terrible under performing schools.

If the hundred best teachers in the country were assigned to teach at the worst school in America would there really be that much change?
Very few professionals are good under all circumstances. Just because a teacher is great in one setting doesn't mean they would be in another. It takes a special person to teach in the inner city successfully. It takes a special person to teach in a high profile suburban school successfully. The skill sets are not necessarily interchangeable. Also would they want to and if they did why aren't they?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 04:44 PM
 
22,502 posts, read 17,022,883 times
Reputation: 5068
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Ever seen Dangerous Minds or Stand and Deliver? Those are both true stories about great teachers in bad schools who DID make a difference.

Great teachers will make a difference regardless of the demographics. That being said, it would make more of a difference to put good teachers in bad schools than bad teachers in good schools.

Take the students at Phillips Exeter and give them crappy teachers and they're still the cream of the crop, from families pushing for college and a school with nearly unlimited resources.
No you would have Phillips Exeter going bankrupt because all of the parents pulled their kids out. Wealthy people don't opt for mediocrity. That is why they work hard so they afford excellence for their kids.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 05-14-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
8,714 posts, read 19,197,392 times
Reputation: 4580
I think it depends on how you define "best teachers" - the people who work at Phillips Exeter would probably not work very well at a ghetto school.

But if you had very motiviated and motivating people like the hero of Stand and Deliver - Jaime Escalante - you could get some improvement.

IQ is sort of a forbidden topic, but a lot of the ghetto kids don't have a lot of it, that and they are not interested in higher education as such. A better approach might be to teach English in terms of writing up descriptions of events or instructions on how to do something, to teach Math in terms of balancing checkbooks, how to estimate a construction job, other practical and applied versions rather than blue sky theory.

The home environment has a big effect too - hard to fix the kid when the rest of the family is broke.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $74,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:07 PM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top