Budget Crisis: Fire the Administrators, not the Teachers, but is this really wise? (school, salary)

[Weekend Traveler]

Every time there is a Local or State budget crisis there is always talk about cutting spending on education. The refrain from everyone is to go ahead and cut those lazy worthless administrators and keep the teachers. The impression is that everyone who works in the office and is not teaching students are wasting the taxpayers money. Nothing is important in the running of schools except teachers.

As a teacher myself I understand the importance of people who do the actual instruction but I also understand the importance of general administration. But most people do not understand what those administrators actually do. (I work as a teacher in the evenings and a Human Resources person during the day, so I see both sides of the process)

Anyone on the inside who can defend the administrators in a school and at the head office?

[lisdol]

WT are you a teacher or a HR professional? OH forget it I see you edited.

[lisdol]

I can't defend or attack the duties of the admins but I will say the big outcry around here is the salary difference. Many people feel the admins will slash budgets, freeze pay, and allocate money oddly but will protect their high pay and increases.

Of course we need admin people. Just like we need the secretary at the front desk to answer the phone and do the other million things she does.

[Pandamonium]

Originally Posted by Weekend Traveler

Every time there is a Local or State budget crisis there is always talk about cutting spending on education. The refrain from everyone is to go ahead and cut those lazy worthless administrators and keep the teachers.

That is recent. I have never heard that refrain.

The first thing they do is get a bunch of yuck-yucks together and say, "We don't really need an art teacher" or "We don't need a foorain language. This is America and we speak Americanese" or "We just need one nurse for all three schools." Often followed by crap like, "You may only print xxx papers for the entire year" and "students must donate toiletpaper".

As it stands now, teachers do unpaid work after school, are expected to continue education and now you want them to do administrative duties.
Sweeet.

[lisdol]

Originally Posted by Pandamonium

That is recent. I have never heard that refrain.

The first thing they do is get a bunch of yuck-yucks together and say, "We don't really need an art teacher" or "...

In our district it is, for next year, "we don't need to pull out gifted kids and give them enrichment in a different classroom 30 min per day". And - "lets cut money by laying off all first year teachers and shuffling the kids and everyone else around to still meet state ratios." Our school's gifted teacher's parting refrain (as she goes off to teach at a different school because that is the only way she can keep her job) is : "Make sure the IEPs are being honored".

[slim04]

First of all, I'm not defending administrators in general, as I probably could find lots of waste and deadweight in any government agency or corporation.

As for what they do? I'm just guessing, but isn't human resources one of the things that they do (i.e. hiring, firing, administering benefits, payroll, checking credentials, organizating teacher development or training).

I would think they would also include accountants to put to together budgets, collect money, pay bills, and put together financial reports for the district and state. I would imagine that they would need purchasing people to handle the mass amounts of books, supplies, furniture, and equipment school districts purchase.

Don't they need lawyers to handle lawsuits against the system from employees, former employees, students, parents, etc. I would think they would need people to oversee the folks that run the physical plant and grounds (landscapers, building maintenance, HVAC, security). Don't they have people overseeing the fleet of buses, IT staff, the medical staff, the sports program, musical programs, and outside actitivies that go beyond what the faculty does.

I would think they have lots of record keeping folks as schools generate a lot of paperwork, such as school transcripts. I would think they have people in charge of alumni relations and relations with the PTA. Maybe a community development officer or professional fundraiser.

I assume that schools have to generate a tremendous amount of reports dealing will financial, demographics, testing, etc. to various persons. Those reports have to be compiled from the raw data. They probably also have people that appy for grants from the state or federal programs (ESL?) and have to generate reports and records to keep getting the aid. It takes people and lots time to generate this stuff.

Don't they need people to keep track of where the students are (truant, sick) or any other staff (i.e. scheduling a substitute).

This is stuff of the top of my head, so it seems most schools have a lot of adminstrative stuff they that have to do to support the teaching. It doesn't magically happen and the teachers shouldn't have to do it. But I definitely agree there is plenty of fat to be cut before it should affect teachers (well at least the good ones).

[Sam82]

My school has 4 administrators ( 1 principal and 3 APs) for around 650 kids. It seems excessive to me. That's a whole lot of money to me.

[StarlaJane]

That is a lot for 650 kids.

I think that administrators do make too much money, especially in relation to what teachers make, and especially b/c they seem to be trying to "pass the buck" more and more with regard to disciplining students b/c they do not want the liability, which could threaten their jobs.

They try to contain discipline problems within the classroom not b/c they think that the teacher is relying on them too much but b/c they do not want to deal with the politics associated with retaliatory parents. But isn't that exactly why they are paid more, because their job entails more responsibility/liability than the teachers? And yet, when something goes wrong, it is usually always the teacher's fault rather than the administrator's. Furthermore, isn't that their job? What else are they doing all day long?

So, I guess what I am trying to say is that the salary discrepancy is only justifiable if the administrators actually do have more responsibility/liability, and are the ones whose jobs are at stake when something goes wrong.

[Mamama Mia]

A good administrator earns every dime.

[Pandamonium]

The school boards need to put the discretion back into the hands of the principles not in the cops at schools.

There......saved a buck.

We have schools that keep the lights out in the hallways, to save a buck while the students are in school. We have schools that order the textbooks but not the multiples, to save a buck. This makes those textbooks pretty useless. Mainstreaming, to save a buck. We have schools that use per pupil spending to repair buildings, to save buck.

Where I am at the district does not even have a GT program. In fact, in this state we pay for textbooks at the prices that they were purchased at then give them back. The next years students pay a price but a smidgen lower and such. My son brought home a book on robots from their library. 1976. Yep. Mind blowing.

At some point, shouldn't somebody say, the buck stops here.