Homeschooling (district, reviews, acceptance, student)

[tamitrail]

Originally Posted by wolfeyes

Just a quick note here...::
Here are the States that Require Homeschoolers to take the Standardize Test are...
AR, CO, FL, GA, HI, MA, ME, MN, NM, NY, NC, ND, OH, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, VA, VT, WA, WV. If your state is not listed, then assessment testing is not required, nor is any other form of assessment such as an evaluation or portfolio. If a child falls below the required score, the homeschool is put on probation and remediation services are offered for a year or two. If the child again fails to show progress, he or she may be sent back to a public or private school or the family may be required to hire a tutor. In only one state, Hawaii, are homeschool parents threatened with educational neglect charges based on test scores after remediation.

That's not quite right. VA has several different options to show end of year progress and they all don't require testing.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by flik_becky

You keep screaming that homeschooling should yield FANTASTIC results. Ok. How is this for FANTASTIC.

OUr daughter started formal homeschooling two years ago this fall, 2 months before turning age 5, most kids would have missed the kindergarten age cut off. The end of the year project was a book challenge. We sat down and talked with her. We were having problems with her reading out loud. Her mind was reading faster than her lips could speak the words so she would cut off the ending sounds of words and eventually the last couple words of the sentence. She figured, if she got the point the rest didn't matter. We asked her....
"Would you like to do a reading challenge?"
"What's a reading challenge?"
"A reading challenge is you pick a prize you want and how many books you should read to earn that prize."
After the excited whooping..."I want a BIKE!"
"And how many books should you read to get that bike."
"1000."
"Wow! What a goal! We were thinking maybe 500."
After just 2 1/2 months, she started off the summer with a brand new book and she had increased her reading profiency enough to be able to spit out the words as fast as her head read them. All this a age 5 1/2!

So we tried spelling with her the first year. She pretty much sucked. Well there is no hurry right? So we dropped the subject all together. But I did one test because some words she could spell without being taught and other she could not grasp. I wrote down 25 words. She successfully spelled 'prehistoric' and 'president' but could not spell the word 'rain.' She also had some issues with comprehension. Well she was still above grade level but had not yet mastered her reading level. I could easily pass it off as a problem with age and her not being ready for it. I waited and the next year she started off with the same problem. We tried having her spell just 5 words 25 times a day and at the end of the week, she still failed. Her confidence was broken. We again dropped the subject. I did some research and found a program that teaches word patterns so that the kids can learn a pattern from a root and be able to naturally learn the spelling without mindless repetition. Sequential Spelling sure beats the idiotic, mediocre, poor excuse of a spelling program that the school system puts out that teachs kids words based of themes...days of the week, spring words, ect. In a couple days, this little girl could spell 'misunderstanding.'

You know what we think was wrong? Her father is dyslexic. But not all dyslexics are made equal. He could read well above his grade level but could not spell at all. His was funtionally high in comprension compared to most dyslexics but still below average with certain materials. The had the best specialist in the state come in and try to teach him but he could not be taught. She stood up and cried, saying she could not teach him, that he was the only student she had ever failed. Our daughter is probably the same but she is well above in every subject.

She is 7 years old now. She HATES math but LOVES algebra...6th grade level. Her reading skills are college level. Her comprehension is 7th grade so she always has a lot of questions but she is interested in college level material, but then again we don't dumb down the material either. We don't see any point in teaching the same thing every year just to put bigger words in it. Science and history she is 6th grade and above. But she is registered as a 1st grader. That keeps people from knocking on our door. It also keeps her in the dark from the public and local media. We don't want any unwanted attention. We are looking at a girl who will probably be ready for college level classes between ages 10-13 which we will encourage her to take online so she also does not have to deal with the attention thing, keep her level headed as long as possible.

A few months back we were watcing TV together. There was a little boy about 12-14 years old walking into the sylvan learning center. He had an algebra book under his arm. The conversation went like this.
"Mom that boy is doing algebra."
"He sure is."
"But he looks older than me."
"He sure is."
"But he's older and doing algebra."
"Yup."
"Why? Is he dumb?"
"No."
"Than why is he doing algebra?"
"That is the right age for doing algebra."
She laughs.
"I'm not kididng."
"Yea right Mom."
"I'm serious. I"m not kidding."
"Then what do kids my age do?"
"Basic math."
"What is basic math."
"1 plus 1."
She laughs and does not believe me. She refuses to believe me. So I go online with her and type in "1st grade curriculum" and show her. She is wide eyed as I read it off.
"So what grade am I in for real?"
"6th grade." She is wide eyed and does not believe me. I pull up the 6th grade curriculum and read that off for her. She gets thoughtful.
"Does that mean I'm special?' Then I just laugh at her.
"Of course sweetheart. But remember, everyone is special in different ways. Everyone is good at something and you are not good at everything."

I laughed because I had listened to well meaning family members saying that she was developmentally delayed as a toddler, regardless of her speaking at four months, sorting her toys by shape, size and color instead of builing towers like the other kids her age, because she refused to interact with anyone who treated her like a baby, and because she was "adhd" according to them. After hearing about all the therapy our child was missing for 3 plus years of her life, it sure was nice to say, "IN YOUR FACE!" We know what the hell we're ddoing and I know dang well there is no public school who could help her. She would have been ready for kindergarten at age 3 and they would not have allowed her in.

Our other two are following in her footsteps by the way.

My 11 yo started algebra concepts in kindergarten, do you really expect me to be impressed?

It takes several years to teach algebra. Tell your daughter I was still doing algebra in college. I'm sure she'll think that makes me stupid . Wow, you must be proud. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts she won't be done with algebra by 12. Most kids haven't developed the abstract reasonining needed to do simultaneous solution one by age 12 Just because you stick in a variable doesn't mean your child knows algebra.

Yes, they teach some algebra concepts young these days because some can be done by younger kids. The current trend is to pull down things like geometry and statistics as well as algebra concepts into the early grades and then spiral back to them for several years building on them each time. The goal being completion of algebra I by the end of 8th grade. Of course you stil have algebra II, algebra III, college algebra to go .

You might want to clue your daughter in that she will probably still be doing algerba at 12, 16 and 20. She's not done yet, I'll bet she can't factor a trinomial by completion of the square just yet

Now whether or not I think we should be teaching algebra to 7 year olds is another story. I think it's much more important to get basic math skills to automaticity first. Teaching factoring of trinomials is much easier if they have attained automaticity in multiplication. I'm in favor of an asian approach to math where you go deeper and deeper before moving on. First you add whole numbers, then fractions then decimals, then variables....then things like binomial expansions

[wolfeyes]

Originally Posted by tamitrail

That's not quite right. VA has several different options to show end of year progress and they all don't require testing.

Not trying to argue with you or anything BUT...If you would have read down a little further you would have seen where I posted (Yes I seen that allot of states have the 3 options to choose from).. and same I said about Florida.. VA is under the list, because under VA laws.. Standardized Tests: Only required for parents homeschooling under the home school law in Option 1. And Yes.. I know that if you choose options 2 or 3 Option 1 is a moot.. according to what Bean said..

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by flik_becky

I laughed because I had listened to well meaning family members saying that she was developmentally delayed as a toddler, regardless of her speaking at four months, sorting her toys by shape, size and color instead of builing towers like the other kids her age, because she refused to interact with anyone who treated her like a baby, and because she was "adhd" according to them. After hearing about all the therapy our child was missing for 3 plus years of her life, it sure was nice to say, "IN YOUR FACE!" We know what the hell we're ddoing and I know dang well there is no public school who could help her. She would have been ready for kindergarten at age 3 and they would not have allowed her in.

Our other two are following in her footsteps by the way.

Speaking at 4 months???? Have you called Guiness (sp?, I'm too lazy to look it up)? That's got to be a record.

And the schools were right not to let her in at 3. If she's that far advanced, she belongs in a school for gifted children. Kids are all over the map as far as school readiness before school starts and it means nothing. A child who reads at three is not necessarily smarter than one who reads at 6.

Here's what I've learned dealing with a gifted child. It's not when they do something but how fast they progress once they start and how deep they go that matters. Initially, I thought our pediatrician was nuts for telling me my 4 year old was gifted because she was one of only a few kids not reading at 3 in my moms group. Turns out when they read isn't the test of intelligence. That is developmental. It's how fast they progress once they start and how deep they go.

So, dd's friend who started reading at 3 and was reading at a 3rd grade level by the end of kindergarten was normal. Dd who started reading at 6 (halfway through kindergarten) and finished kindergarten reading at a 3rd grade level is gifted. For comparison, by the end of 3rd grade her friend was reading at a 6th grade level wheras, dd made it to a 9th grade level halfway through 3rd grade. We were told this because gifted kids, apparently, often stagnate at that point. Not because they're not capable of learning to read at higher levels but because what they're choosing to read usually won't be above that level. It's not until their interests get past the 9th grade level that reading progresses. At least, that's that they tell us.

And, BTW, early speaking even early speaking in sentences doesn't mean much. You have to look for things like early use of pronouns. Early speaking, even sentences, can be just parroting. I was impressed when dd#2 spoke in full sentences at 12 months. Her pedicatrician was impressed she used the words "I" , "Me" and "You". She understood that "Me" meant me when I said it but her when she said it. He was also impressed she could follow an imaginary line. Apparently, most toddlers that age would have looked at the end of your finger not the object you were pointing at.

My brother was speaking in sentences at one and, fluently, bilingual at 2. I didn't start talking until I was 2. I'm the one with four college degrees. He flunked out his first semester. But I have to say, we're pretty evenly matched, intellectually. Each of us can hold our own in a debate but his memory is better than mine. He remembers facts whereas I deal in logical reasoning. Which probably explains why he talked early. He memorizes easily. Mom was told I was retarded because the pediatrician who evaluated me at 2 gave me a pen and paper and instead of drawing something I took the pen apart. I remember being fascinated by pens. What captivated me was that you could take the guts out of them, put them back together and they looked just like any other pen but they didn't work. I was dabbling in Schroedinger's theory at 2 .

I used to think that things like speaking and reading were markers of intelligence. Actually having a gifted child has been an eye opener. The things I thought mattered didn't and I would never have even thought that the ones that do, do.

Out of curiosity, did your dd talk about life before she was born? Up until she was about 2 1/2 dd used to talk about life before she came here. How she chose me as her mom (she even described the other candidates for her mom), the other kids she knew who were waiting to be born. My oldest who talked on a more typical timeline never talked like this. I've always wondered if it had something to do with early talking. Although to you speaking in sentences and carrying on conversations at a year probably isn't impressive with a baby who spoke at 4 months.

[flik_becky]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

My 11 yo started algebra concepts in kindergarten, do you really expect me to be impressed?

I don't expect you be impressed. You just have ZERO clue about where my daughter is. My daughter cried and hated doing those kindergarten concepts because they were boring and way too easy, but we had to prove she could, in case those ignorant people at the school who just don't believe its possible come around her to find out.

It takes several years to teach algebra. Tell your daughter I was still doing algebra in college. I'm sure she'll think that makes me stupid . Wow, you must be proud. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts she won't be done with algebra by 12. Most kids haven't developed the abstract reasonining needed to do simultaneous solution one by age 12 Just because you stick in a variable doesn't mean your child knows algebra.

For the average person, yes it take years to teach algebra. But that is because we believe it will. If we believe that we can do better, we will. Hell, when I was in school, I would learn ahead and learn the entire book in a couple weeks so the class was super easy and boring for the rest of the semester, but I got straight A's and had the time to work on something else like I was taking notes in the back. The teacher was clueless.

Yes, they teach some algebra concepts young these days because some can be done by younger kids. The current trend is to pull down things like geometry and statistics as well as algebra concepts into the early grades and then spiral back to them for several years building on them each time. The goal being completion of algebra I by the end of 8th grade. Of course you stil have algebra II, algebra III, college algebra to go .

8th grade! She will be completed by next spring at AGE 8! I know she has all the rest to go. But that is what is crazy! By the time most kids are completing Albegra I in the 8th grade, she'll be doing or through the college Algebra! That is why I say she will be taking online classes. I don't want to see her in college that young. I think that we will enroll her into an online public schol for the gifted instead and let them tell me when she's ready for college.

You might want to clue your daughter in that she will probably still be doing algerba at 12, 16 and 20. She's not done yet, I'll bet she can't factor a trinomial by completion of the square just yet

Oh she is well aware of that. That was part of our conversation. She was shocked to find that the same book she learns from is the type of book that most 6th graders do. Since she was homeschooled, she had never compared herself to kids her own age and we had never told her, not wanting her to get a big head or bad attitude about it. We never thought of what could happen when she found out.

Now whether or not I think we should be teaching algebra to 7 year olds is another story. I think it's much more important to get basic math skills to automaticity first. Teaching factoring of trinomials is much easier if they have attained automaticity in multiplication. I'm in favor of an asian approach to math where you go deeper and deeper before moving on. First you add whole numbers, then fractions then decimals, then variables....then things like binomial expansions

ROLFLMAO! Do you REALLY think that I would teach my daughter algebra without automaticity! That would make way more work for ME! How stupid to go forward without that! She is well beyond that already. The year she would have started kindergarten in a lower quailty education public school, she would have bawled her eyes out because she could, at age four, ALREADY do that basic algebra crap you are talking about, ON HER OWN. I never taught her! My sister was testing her on 'what plus what equals....' and she would ace them. She would continue playing like she didn't hear her say a word, process the problem in her head, basic problems she could spit out and large four digit problems added to each other taking longer, staying quiet and then spitting the answer out after quite a few seconds. Then would throw out a problem like 5 + x = 10, what is X? SHOCK! She knew that! "Well that was an easy one," my daughter says.

She would have HATED being talked to "like a baby" as she calls it. In a mediocre public school, that is exactly how she would feel. Heck, she fells like that at home at times. I went to teach her multiplication at age 5 and she informed me she already knew that. I told her to prove it to me with timed tests, 25 questions starting with zero going up to twelve and she would ace one after another in record time. IN FACT, I made her do the time tests until she could do all in under a minute. She cried because she thought she had already proven her point but I told her she could move on to more fun stuff if she could do it. In a couple of days she had it down. She hated math because I made her do worksheet after worksheet of the stuff she knew. Not because I was mean or torturous but because I needed the proof in her portfolio. We had a battle of wills one day and she tried to reason with me, telling me that it was a waste of time to do stuff she already knew, promising she would do more of another subject to make up for it. I told her why I needed the work and then she let out a defeated sigh, thought for a moment and then said she wanted more worksheets every day so she could hurry up and get it over with.

I mean in ALGEBRA as in "I have an algebra book that most 6th or 7th graders would be using. My daughter started in early spring (2009), rolling from one page through another, but was unable to complete the subject in just two months. She has about 1/3rd of it left before she moves onto the next level, which she will begin again in August when our homeschool starts up again."

I mean algebra as in "On the website where I print her worksheets, it goes through pre-k through 6th grade. There are just enough worksheets that she will be able to complete the subject with. After that, I will have to dig around a little harder to find a free or close to free website to print worksheets from or will have to buy a workbook for her."

When I say my daughter is ahead I mean, "Last winter we were at my friends house. She has three kids, 14, 10, and 7. My daughter had just turned 7. The kids were doing their homework. She first helped the 7 year old with learning how to read. Then she went over and helped the 10 year old with a math problem that he did not understand. It really hurt his feelings so we called her off, though his mother kept picking on him, so sad. But when he got to the extra credit question that was more difficult at the end and his mother could not assist him, he asked my daughter to help him...which she read it out loud, said .."Umm..." and then thought for a minute, "I know what to do!" and then showed him. Then she told me "I am use to doing it by myself and had to think about how to tell him to do it."

When I say my daughter is advanced I mean, "On a trip with my sister and her teenage daughter, my neice, who was 16, asked her mother if she thought it was possible for chimps and humans to make babies together, if their DNA was close enough. My daughter, age 6, and I remained quit while my sister hem-hawed about it. Then my daughter says "They already have but the scientist didn't make a baby because he killed it." My sister smiled and wanted to know where she learned that from. "I saw it on TV." She smiled with that "aw shucks" looks. "No. She's right. They were able to mix sperm and egg in a petri dish and were able to prove that it can happen and that it could survived for so long." Then my daughter says "And then they killed it because it was against the law and people would not like a new ape species. It would be wrong and probably look creepy."

The point is, there is no public school that could even come close to doing a good enough job for our daughter, or any of our children because the are all ahead for their age. They do not believe in "gifted" and their gifted progams are a joke, for kids who are just slightly ahead of the crowd. The point is, homeschooling demographics include:

A: parents with children who are falling behind because the school is failing them, or suffering from bullying, ect.
B: parents with children so advanced that the typical curriculum does not work for the child
C: parents who recognize the many failures that the public school has and does not a want a cookie cutter member of society student that schools push out into the world

The liberal side of the governement does not like homeschoolers. Neither do the teachers, most often liberal. They believe that nobody can do it like the governement can. All the social studies in school that make perfect smiling, go with whatever your told, citizens can not be properly made "socialized" citizens in the homeschooling environment simply because the homeschooler is a non-conformist to begin with and has different ideas that could, and have in the past changed our country.

To say that homeschoolers are not any more ahead than they would be if the had gone to school is crap. Lets look at the national spelling bees. Lets call the colleges and ask them their opinion in excepting students from a homeschooled education.

The only ones not ahead are the teachers that are teaching from outdated books that they students enjoy looking for their parents names in on the first day of school. Maybe not in every single homeschool, but for sure in ours, our up to date material, open minded education is far superior of any of the mediocre poor excuse for learning that any public school could provide our children.

[flik_becky]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Speaking at 4 months???? Have you called Guiness (sp?, I'm too lazy to look it up)? That's got to be a record.

No but maybe we should have...BUT we do not admire those type of parents who put their gifted kids in the spot light. That is a lot of pressure on a kid, regardless of intelligence, age or gifted venue.

By the way, she said the word "HI!" rather shouted it, at our friend who she admired but he was afraid of breaking her so he'd play with her at a distance with goofy looks, sounds or whatever. He jumped back and for a fleeting second thought see was possessed. We were all shocked. Next she said 'up' and 'yup', by 6 months she had "dad' and 'ponbebob' (spongebob, and her father watched it for himself, didn't put it on her her). But so sad for me because she didn't want to say mom before spongebob. Our second did the same at four months and on our third one's two week check op, we were able to verify our son saying hi, that it wasn't in our head.

And the schools were right not to let her in at 3. If she's that far advanced, she belongs in a school for gifted children. Kids are all over the map as far as school readiness before school starts and it means nothing. A child who reads at three is not necessarily smarter than one who reads at 6.

Reading is not all she did. She was through all kindergarten and some 1st grade expectations at this age.

Here's what I've learned dealing with a gifted child. It's not when they do something but how fast they progress once they start and how deep they go that matters. Initially, I thought our pediatrician was nuts for telling me my 4 year old was gifted because she was one of only a few kids not reading at 3 in my moms group. Turns out when they read isn't the test of intelligence. That is developmental. It's how fast they progress once they start and how deep they go.

Exactly and she did a lot at age three that was very indepth. Kind of like when we were out on a walk and we pointed out a willow tree and asked our daughter what type of tree that was. She said, "Deciduous." when asked which species, she was stumped. After we told her, we moved forward. Then she stops suddenly and blurts out,"THAT tree is part of the ecosystem!" "Yes sweetheart" and we move forward. Then she stops, stomping her feet, use to me correcting her when she makes a mistake and says..."NO MOM! That willow tree was part of the freshwater ecosystem!" Or at age two, never having played an instrument beyond maracas and the drum or ever having seen sheet music ever, set down to play her new xylophone by placing sheet music in front of her and trying to read it to play the notes. Or at age three when she knew the difference between complete and incomplete metamorphosis and which insects did each one. She would play with her playdo and build the entire lifecycle of a butterfly, complete with eggs stuck on a stick to a butterfly in a chrysalis, to the type of leaves it ate.

When our daughter learned how to read at age three, by her fourth birthday she was reading at a 1st grade level. By her fifth birthday, she was reading at a 5th grade level, by her 6th birthday, she was reading at a college level. That is where she is now, and she corrects me when I pronouce a big word incorrectly. (At least she's nice about it..."Umm Mom...I think it's____.")

So, dd's friend who started reading at 3 and was reading at a 3rd grade level by the end of kindergarten was normal. Dd who started reading at 6 (halfway through kindergarten) and finished kindergarten reading at a 3rd grade level is gifted. For comparison, by the end of 3rd grade her friend was reading at a 6th grade level wheras, dd made it to a 9th grade level halfway through 3rd grade. We were told this because gifted kids, apparently, often stagnate at that point. Not because they're not capable of learning to read at higher levels but because what they're choosing to read usually won't be above that level. It's not until their interests get past the 9th grade level that reading progresses. At least, that's that they tell us.

A lot of this has to do with the cookie theory. I can't recal the person who came up with it but here goes...

Children's intellegence growth can be measured like giving them cookies. If you had a class of 30 students and you gave them all two cookies each, some students might struggle to finish one cookie and then stuggle to push in the rest of the information. Most of the students would slowly eat their cookies and be content with the amount of information given while a couple of students will gobble down those two cookies and ask for more, however, be told that the information they have been given is enough. After awhile, they will learn to just eat those two cookies, never being given ample material to move at their own rates. This is why most "experts" agree with the data that most children, regardless of how gifted before kindergarten, will average out with their peer group by athe second or third grade. However, if a child has access to that material, at school or at home, they will continue to progress at the rate that is natural for them.

A great example of this goes back to when I was in second grade. We had a reading contest, the person who read the most books got a prize. I walked to the 6th grade section and picked up a big thick book that interested me. The teacher took it from my hand and put it back on the shelf and led me back to the second grade section and recommended some of the books the other kids were reading. I snuck back when she wasn't looking at got that book. The librarian smiles and she checked it out in my name. I read the least books in that contest and a letter got sent to my parents saying how I was the slowest reader in the class. But I had read the biggest most challenging books. It worked against me and I was stuck with a whole bunch more "practice" with those little books that didn't interest me, required to read a certain number before I could pass the second grade.

And, BTW, early speaking even early speaking in sentences doesn't mean much. You have to look for things like early use of pronouns. Early speaking, even sentences, can be just parroting. I was impressed when dd#2 spoke in full sentences at 12 months. Her pedicatrician was impressed she used the words "I" , "Me" and "You". She understood that "Me" meant me when I said it but her when she said it. He was also impressed she could follow an imaginary line. Apparently, most toddlers that age would have looked at the end of your finger not the object you were pointing at.

So did my kids. I never knew it was significant. I always thought there was something wrong with the other kids.

My brother was speaking in sentences at one and, fluently, bilingual at 2. I didn't start talking until I was 2. I'm the one with four college degrees. He flunked out his first semester. But I have to say, we're pretty evenly matched, intellectually. Each of us can hold our own in a debate but his memory is better than mine. He remembers facts whereas I deal in logical reasoning. Which probably explains why he talked early. He memorizes easily. Mom was told I was retarded because the pediatrician who evaluated me at 2 gave me a pen and paper and instead of drawing something I took the pen apart. I remember being fascinated by pens. What captivated me was that you could take the guts out of them, put them back together and they looked just like any other pen but they didn't work. I was dabbling in Schroedinger's theory at 2 .

I used to think that things like speaking and reading were markers of intelligence. Actually having a gifted child has been an eye opener. The things I thought mattered didn't and I would never have even thought that the ones that do, do.

Exactly.

Out of curiosity, did your dd talk about life before she was born? Up until she was about 2 1/2 dd used to talk about life before she came here. How she chose me as her mom (she even described the other candidates for her mom), the other kids she knew who were waiting to be born. My oldest who talked on a more typical timeline never talked like this. I've always wondered if it had something to do with early talking. Although to you speaking in sentences and carrying on conversations at a year probably isn't impressive with a baby who spoke at 4 months.

Yes, all three of my kids talk have talked like this at some point. My sister's son also carried on conversations with everyone. My daughter would not speak around other people besides us. She would get quiet and observe, much more common with gifted children. Because of this, my mother thought something was wrong with her, that she was mute. my daughter just want to observe, not speak. Now, my nephew is great at telling "stories" (lies) while my daughter corrects ignorant adults when they have no clue what they are talking about. (and when she's right we have a choice to teach her about "respecting adults" or tealling her, "You're right sweetheart." We do the later, which urks the incorrect adult but their happiness is not the freaking point.) We thought our daughter spent a lot of time babbling at a year old but then we realized one day, she was singing a song in another language. She could sing the alphabet in 6 languages and said a whole lot more just from what she was seeing on TV or on movies or heard in public. We did not teach her that.

She said her first word at 4 months, walked at 7 months, ate at the table with a fork in her hand before a year, and was reading at least as young as three. Our second said his first word at 4 months, walked at 6 months, and ate at the table with us at 10 months. Our third came along, said hi, and we have a witness, at two weeks old, walked at four months, I have a picture of him standing up on his own at three months old (he was in a chair that rocked back and forth and he was rocking it standing up), sat at the table and fed himself at 9 months. At barely three years of age, we were standing waiting for our turn at the bank. I noticed he was looking at the words on the sign that said, "For the privacy of the customer in front of you, please wait here." We had never heard him read before but his focus made me ask, "Do you know any of those words?" "Yes." "Which ones?" and to my surprise, and everyone standing around me, he points to 'please' and says "Please." "Do you know any others." "Yes. Of." and he points to of. Then it was our turn to be waited on so we didn't do anymore than that and boy did the people behind me start talking. When did he learn to read? We have no clue. To be reading a word as big as please, manners, and eyeing, (just a couple words he pointed out later) he must have been reading for at least a little awhile, sometime in age two.

You are right, reading does not measure intelligence. Its what they take from what they read and/or the questions they have after processing that information. There are a whole lot of different aspects that makes a child gifted. There are five different types of intelligence, well many more but there are 5 main ones. We have a gifted artist, like his father, one gifted in math, and the other we haven't figured out yet. He's only three and hasn't made any one of his talents prominent yet but we're thinking physical because of some of the things hes done (terrifying!) and some of the others like whistling, rolling his tongue, snapping his fingers, properly using scissors at a year old, stand on his head and balance at age two, among many other fine motor skills that I've never seen kids his age do.

BUT early reading and other early feats do suggest a gifted child. It does take doing not just one but multiple linguistic feats, multiple phsyical feats, multiple reasoning feats including; critical, creative, convergent, divergent, inductive, and deductive all together that make a child gifted, each gifted child individual giftedness weighted differently in each area.

Our children have had all of these at varying degrees. There is not even one of my most skeptical relatives that deny this now, not even the one that said "someone" would call social services if we didn't put our kids on ADHD meds because of how "active" they were. After watching our daughter out grow it and seeing she's as smart as we have said all along, they feel differently now.

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by dez181

No offense, but part of education is exposure to diversity and other cultures. How can you claim that 57% of the hispanic population is all illegal immigrants, you need to be careful with that statement. The hispanic population is on the rise, and there is a large perentage that is legal. I am glad that you get to go to so many differnet places, and that your kids are exposed to so many different things, but they need to learn tolerance and respect for others. Unfortunately you do not learn that in a homeschool setting, unless you are part of a larger homeschooling network.

I'm coming late to the discussion, but I do feel obliged to point out that sitting for six or seven hours in a classroom with agemates-- usually from the same neighborhood-- is not necessarily the best way to achieve exposure to a wide variety of people. Nor is forced exposure always a good thing. I'd rather my children interact with Mexican and Bosnian kids at the soccer club, or elderly black blues afficionados at the local community radio station, or the gay couple who run the ice cream shop, or the guy down the street who's in a wheelchair but knows all kinds of stuff about gardening. In other words, in a situation where they know that people can share the same passions they do, no matter their age, background, or social particulars.
In our local school, they got the opposite message: that it was better not to look different, or dress differently, or (heaven forfend) have some sort of disability. Not to say every school is that way-- I sincerely hope not!-- but that was the case when we opted out.

Originally Posted by dez181

People always say that homeschooling is better than regular schooling for many reason, done right it can be, but if you reasons are to shelter your kids from the realities of the world than you need a reality check.

There are homeschoolers who do choose to shelter their kids. There are public school parents who do the same-- by choosing to send Junior to the all-white, all-middle-class, "A" school instead of the blackboard jungle a few miles down. Sheltering is not always a bad thing, though like anything else, it can be taken to extremes. If we define only by extremes, then we run the risk of devolving into complete silliness.

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

They longer you homeschool, the better the odds it was an educational philosophy that worked well for your kids.

I'm not sure it's possible to call homeschooling a single philosophy. Within that category there are folks all the way from Bob Jones and A Beka to virtual academies to unschoolers. It's rather like seeing no difference between a traditionally strict convent school and a Reggio Emilia kindergarten, just because they both take place in school buildings.

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

It would be interesting to see if the percentage of special needs kids is higher among homeschoolers. I'm thinking not though as it's not what comes up when you google homeschooling and it's not what the organizations who are trying to convince us how great homeschooling is are selling either. This would be a strong sales point if it were a better or even common way of dealing with special needs. My experience with parents of special needs kids is that they welcome the help they get from the schools not run from it.

I can't speak for the entire homeschooled community-- there are too many. I can speak for myself, and my immediate area. I am homeschooling one twice exceptional middle schooler, and one gifted middle schooler. We have amongst our friends five or six ESE kids who've been pulled out of the local schools, usually around second or third grade. The county system here is fond of trying to make the child fit the program, rather than the other way around (so much for that "individual" in the IEP); after a point banging one's head against the wall which is the school system becomes non-productive. I can spend less time teaching my kids myself, and save us all the drama.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Aconite

I'm coming late to the discussion, but I do feel obliged to point out that sitting for six or seven hours in a classroom with agemates-- usually from the same neighborhood-- is not necessarily the best way to achieve exposure to a wide variety of people. Nor is forced exposure always a good thing. I'd rather my children interact with Mexican and Bosnian kids at the soccer club, or elderly black blues afficionados at the local community radio station, or the gay couple who run the ice cream shop, or the guy down the street who's in a wheelchair but knows all kinds of stuff about gardening. In other words, in a situation where they know that people can share the same passions they do, no matter their age, background, or social particulars.
In our local school, they got the opposite message: that it was better not to look different, or dress differently, or (heaven forfend) have some sort of disability. Not to say every school is that way-- I sincerely hope not!-- but that was the case when we opted out.




There are homeschoolers who do choose to shelter their kids. There are public school parents who do the same-- by choosing to send Junior to the all-white, all-middle-class, "A" school instead of the blackboard jungle a few miles down. Sheltering is not always a bad thing, though like anything else, it can be taken to extremes. If we define only by extremes, then we run the risk of devolving into complete silliness.

We are at the mercy of demographics but you have a better chance of finding a diverse group if it isn't hand picked by mom unless mom, deliberately, picks one that is diverse.

My kids would never have been exposed to Muslim culture had they not attended public school. I have zero friends who are Muslim. I think it helps to build tolerance if you are exposed to other cultures. Which is one reason I don't live in an area where everyone is the same.

I've never heard the phrase "Blackboard Jungle" before. What ethnic mix would that look like?

The school I teach in is very mixed. About the only demographic missing that is prominent in our area is Muslim. We're a good representation of the surrounding demographics.

I figure my kids have to go out into a world that is diverse so they might as well be exposed to diversity early. Of course the schools are only going to be as diverse as the surrounding area. What my kids really gain exposure to is kids who come from different SES than us as our school feeds from some poor areas as well as one of the wealthiest areas in the city, though those kids seem to go to private schools more often than public.

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Because I'm not convinced that Johnnie is doing better because he is homeschooled. If Johnnie's parents were involved in Johnnie's public education, could the outcome have been better for Johnnie? I don't believe homeschooling itself is better.

I don't think there's any way to prove that any one venue or style is "better". What matters is whether it's appropriate for the specific child at the specific time. For the kids across the street, school is a good spot. For my kids, homeschooling is good. And frankly, at some point, my son may decide to go back to school (because there's a magnet high school program he may be interested in). I doubt my daughter will, and that's fine, too. "One size fits all" generally fits very few, in education as well as pantyhose.