U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 07-13-2009, 08:12 PM
 
1,122 posts, read 1,271,982 times
Reputation: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
I can understand your position given your strict emphasis on academic achievement, but as you've pointed out most home schoolers do not choose their path solely because of academics. They choose home schooling because they want to accomodate religion, travel, special talents or aptitudes, etc. Some may just enjoy studying with their children, and want the option to pursue a family-oriented learning experience. It's a completely different education paradigm that I think should be protected.
You forgot...because some want to avoid work. (How many hours are put into homeschooling? A lot around here. More in research than anything. I don't just follow a random link to a random curriculum. I spend months finding just the right thing, ususally now for years ahead so I am prepared. Boy its a lot of work.)
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-13-2009, 08:13 PM
 
1,122 posts, read 1,271,982 times
Reputation: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Mod cut - removed deleted post that was quoted

Yes, I repeat what I believe is right and until someone proves me wrong, I'll continue to do so. Truth is truth.

I've given you my argument for why I don't think homeschooling is so great. Demographics alone would predict that homeschooled children do well. Very well but when all is said and done, they're barely outscoring public school graduates on the big tests like ACT that are used for college admissions. I'd expect better scores from them for all the reasons I've repeated over and over and feel no need to repeat now. Therefore, there is no proof that homeschooling is delivering better results. It's just a bunch of people saying it is because they want to believe it is. I'm willing to bet if you compared the same demographic within the public schools you'd find homeschooling isn't so hot. It's just too bad the data isn't broken out that way.

Research says that SES matters, maternal education matters, having involved parents matters, being in a two parent home matters and it's simple logic that only those for whom homeschooling works stick with it until graduation. These kids should be scoring a lot better than their public school counterparts that include kids from all walks of life, with and without involved parents, from broken homes and horrible home situations, with parents who may or may not be literate and who are more likely to be poor.

Sorry but when I look at the data, I don't see anything to write home about WRT homeschooling. And that does not make me unintelligent or uneducated. In fact, I'm in top 3%, IQ wise, and the top 10% educationwise...and if that's not enough, I graduated at the top of my class three out of four times. Full time work, full time parenting and grad school took it's toll on my first masters degree. I only had a 3.6 GPA for that one. Yeah, I'm unintelligent and uneducated

And I never said public schools are great. I said that I don't see homeschooling data to indicate that homeschooling is better and it may be worse because the data is not split out in a way that makes it possible to compare the same demographic that is homeschool to their public school counterparts. Of course scores will be lower when you have one more exclusive group compared to a group that includes everyone including the local drug dealer's children.

I, personally, see no need for homeschooling with all the options we have for schools. If you don't like the one your child is in, there are plenty to pick from. I'd rather see parents lobbying for change.
Unless it was failing its students...say compared to how the public school does...there is no merit for completely preventing a specific type of learning, so long as it continues to work.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 08:24 PM
 
1,122 posts, read 1,271,982 times
Reputation: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist View Post
I think parents have a right to have rude, misbehaved children (although I really, really wish they wouldn't...) and to do lots of other things that I don't agree with, but I think that because kids do have to legally have an education then there should be some oversight. I'm not sure what that oversight should be, as I think there should be flexibilty built-in for parents to do what is best for their children, but I also think that the kids have a right to be able to grow up and be able to compete with their peers. I would say that there are some parents who aren't up to educate their kids - those who have a limited education themselves, for example; if you have a barely literate parent teacher, how is that parent supposed to effectively teach her child? I'm not sure where to draw the line, but I think that while the parents have rights, the kids have rights, too.
Sorry to point it out but...usually, demographically speaking, illiterate parents are usually in those families that have to have both parents working just to be sitting at the top of the poverty line, or a single parent working two or three jobs alone to be also be barely sitting on the top of that poverty line. There is no room for home education, and, those parents usually do not have the resources to provide the materials even at just a small $400, thus they get free lunches, and often free breakfasts, at school, which help those families out tremendously through the years, not mention everything else they benefit from such as help with daycare, ect. Then some illiterate parents are home permanently due to lack of ability to get a job or due to disability. Those parents have no idea how to keep their kids at home to school them, and usually do all they can to keep the social services off their steps...including making sure that their attendance in public school is at least acceptable.

We are not factoring in parents who are illiterate who simply do not care whether their kids go to school or not because they are not homeschooling OR ensuring their child attend public, private, military, charter, magnet, or otherwise, school.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 08:38 PM
 
1,122 posts, read 1,271,982 times
Reputation: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Well, of course homeschooling is an extension of staying at home for a lot of people. Because yanno, if you were likely to send your three year old off to be schooled by someone else, there'd be little reason not to do it for your nine year old.
That having been said, I don't see too many SAHMs deciding to just up and homeschool so they can be some kind of working mom's slug fantasy. I see families deciding because it's what works best for their particular situation. If you're looking for bonbons and soap operas, this is not the gig for you. I didn't work as hard writing Baker Acts as I do now.
Soap operas. Dont like them. But I sure sat at when you said bon bons. Which homeschooler is doing that? I think a homeschooling "play date" is order. I guess I can convince the kids that eating bon bons are not all that unhealthy, if you do it with the right pretenses. It could be a science experiment...which parent better mentabilizes them. Then we could debate if the experiment was fair...if one parent snuck forbidden bon bons between "play dates"....You in with me!? This could be fun! or sickening after a couple weeks..at least once our periods were over. But our husbands sure would love us. Ah...the unspoken attributes of chocolate. All the exercise would alter the results. HEY no bon bons between play dates OR fun either. Maybe we should just get lazy and eat the bon bons while we looked up experiment results online comparing people, one with each our body types.

(hint: pretenses as in make believed or imagined, feigned behavior AND unwarrented claim) But that is what we homeschoolers do, right?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 08:56 PM
 
10,040 posts, read 14,367,134 times
Reputation: 6027
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky View Post
My question is....percents to percents...do you also feel this bad for the much higher percent of public schooled children who are left to fall through the cracks?

But I disagree with your unsupported claim. How about the data I was able to provide that of 7300 homeschooled, 100% were employed or in college full time?
I earlier said (repeatedly) that I was equally upset about children who are falling through the cracks in public (or private) schools.

And I'm not saying that there are parents currently homeschooling who shouldn't be able to teach their kids (I don't know if there are or there arent') - I'm saying that there need to be some basic checks and balances to guarantee that such scenarios don't happen. For the vast majority of homeschooling families that do meet basic requirements this won't be an issue.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 09:01 PM
 
10,040 posts, read 14,367,134 times
Reputation: 6027
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky View Post
Sorry to point it out but...usually, demographically speaking, illiterate parents are usually in those families that have to have both parents working just to be sitting at the top of the poverty line, or a single parent working two or three jobs alone to be also be barely sitting on the top of that poverty line. There is no room for home education, and, those parents usually do not have the resources to provide the materials even at just a small $400, thus they get free lunches, and often free breakfasts, at school, which help those families out tremendously through the years, not mention everything else they benefit from such as help with daycare, ect. Then some illiterate parents are home permanently due to lack of ability to get a job or due to disability. Those parents have no idea how to keep their kids at home to school them, and usually do all they can to keep the social services off their steps...including making sure that their attendance in public school is at least acceptable.

We are not factoring in parents who are illiterate who simply do not care whether their kids go to school or not because they are not homeschooling OR ensuring their child attend public, private, military, charter, magnet, or otherwise, school.
Using illiterate parents was just an example. I don't think a parent without a high school degree or a GED should be the sole person for educating their child. If most of these parents are sending their kids to public or private schools that's fine - that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some basic checks and balances in the system to make sure that homeschooled kids are getting what they need.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 09:24 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 7,109,176 times
Reputation: 4367
I think there is a middle way. I support a GED minimum for the primary home school teacher, but I am on the fence about achievement tests to check for progress. I definitely do not think that school districts should dictate curriculum choice.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 09:26 PM
 
4,026 posts, read 5,037,449 times
Reputation: 5968
Lax oversight of home schooling doesn't concern me as much as the ones doing the overseeing. Namely, the many states that oversee local schools that have less than a fifty percent high school graduation rate and of those that do graduate many are well below a 12th grade reading level. Lets include in that the environment in many of the schools where teachers are subjected to profanity and abuse from the students all day long and many of the teachers themselves are not proficient in the subject matter.
If the government can't properly oversee the government run schools which they have direct responsibility for, just exactly what constructive oversight are the home schoolers missing out on?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 09:57 PM
 
10,040 posts, read 14,367,134 times
Reputation: 6027
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
I think there is a middle way. I support a GED minimum for the primary home school teacher, but I am on the fence about achievement tests to check for progress. I definitely do not think that school districts should dictate curriculum choice.
I would agree with that. I certainly don't agree with curriculum requirements, and think testing is overused.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 10:16 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 7,109,176 times
Reputation: 4367
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist View Post
I would agree with that. I certainly don't agree with curriculum requirements, and think testing is overused.
Interestingly, my state only requires that a home schooled child be taught by a parent (includes guardians) or other relative of the student appointed by the parent. There is absolutely no educational requirement for the teacher.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top