My view (earnings, grades, biology, profession)

[Eresh]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Here's my take. I think that somewhere about the 1970's parenting becamse child centered. The family started revolving around the child. Now they're adults and think the world should revolve around them. What do you think?

I think that is a huge part of it. Unfortunately I think it is only getting worse. Parents can barely discipline a child these days. And teachers? no way. My daughter's daycare won't even use time outs on 3 year olds because some parent complained that was too harsh. And for the older kids, parents get all bent out of shape if a teacher corrects or admonishes their precious little Johnny - and the administrators back the parent because they are scared of a lawsuit!

[okaydorothy]

I am so glad that it is not just me so. What was I thinking ; actually liking school and listening to the teacher ; gosh, i may actually learn something.

Thanks
d

[LostNJax]

Hey all.. I just wanted to jump in on the conversation as an "under 25 yr old". I am one that doesn't follow the standards of the group.

I completely agree with you on many levels. As a member of the "under 25" group and a teacher of the "even younger under 25" group, I have to say the amount of respect for teachers/parents/adults and overall authority has decreased significantly. Maybe I live a little old fashioned, my mom always told me I should have been born in her era, but I believe that technology is the main culpret...while good in small amounts, it is the root of all evil. Elaboration:

1) I find it absolutely ridiculous for elementary and middle school students to be using facebook and myspace. The people they meet and see are not their age and are posting pictures that I wouldn't even want to look at. I also think that if they want to meet people they should stick to the people at their school. What happened to good old fashioned pen pals?? I don't even have a myspace account or facebook. (Personal note: If I wanted to stay in touch with you.. I would have)

2)It blows my mind that students can search for anything on the internet, but struggle to write a simple sentence with Capital letters, proper punctuation, and descent spelling. I'm not the best speller but some of the things I read are really off the wall.

3) I spent last year teaching fourth grade students how to create power points, use exel and word. While I like the idea of students learning to type and write papers on word, I feel that for fourth graders exel and power point is a little over board. When are they ever really going to use it??

Alright, I'll step off my soap box now... just wanted to share with you the ideas I have on the subject. I believe the lack of respect to be a result of the technology influences as well as the over-protective parents who feel that their child is too good to make mistakes.

[lisdol]

Originally Posted by anadyr21

Sadly, this is the standard for a class these days. Powerpoints and notes available online, study guides, review sessions, etc. It is spoon fed to the point where if I were in college now, I'd see no reason to go to class. Everything I need is online. What do I need the professor for? And ghod forbid the professor talks about anything not in the book or not on the test. I actually had a complaint on my student evaluation sheet that I talk about things that won't be covered on the test. And then they complain about having to take (write) notes because it should all be in a powerpoint they can just download.

Kind of makes me wonder how I should interpret the statement "this is a rigorous program" when I read it in program descriptions. Maybe its considered rigorous b/c it is done the way I remember college. You learn a ton of information - a select amount of it is on the test b/c the sheer volume of information is too much to test - and you are expected to know it all just in case it does show up on the test.

I remember taking A&P 1 and 2 and studying everything thoroughly and with equal effort (plus the professor was kind enough to have a TA run a final exam review session one afternoon) because you never knew what systems the professor was going to have the most questions for. I suppose nowadays students will ask things like "what percentage of the 200 questions will be on x,y,z systems?".

I have a friend who is a PhD student (and TA) and has students in her office constantly, emailing her, etc...saying things as simple as "I am so nervous about tomorrows test" and wanting her to comfort them.

[mm_mary73]

Originally Posted by LostNJax

...It blows my mind that students can search for anything on the internet, but struggle to write a simple sentence with Capital letters, proper punctuation, and descent spelling. I'm not the best speller but some of the things I read are really off the wall. ... .

This is true even in post-secondary school, especially when the student has an "A" in College English Go figure.....

[Newdaawn]

It would seem to me that it would be up to the teacher, instructor or professor to "set the tone" of the class. Let the students know up front - at the first class that there will be NO cell phones on or text messaging during his/her class. If a student refuses to comply - deduct it from their grade. Let them know that this is "college" not Jr High School

[juniperbleu]

Regarding the original post, that's pretty bad. My classes were nothing like that. Sure, there might be one or two surreptitiously texting on their phones, but most of the professors wouldn't let anyone get away with having our own separate conversations. I had several professors who docked your final grade by 0.5 every time your cell phone rang in class and am pretty sure that if you answered it you would have been kicked out. We were told this condition at the first class and were told that if we didn't like it, the door's right there.

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Here's my take. I think that somewhere about the 1970's parenting becamse child centered. The family started revolving around the child. Now they're adults and think the world should revolve around them. What do you think?

I'd have to agree, and think it's getting worse. I'm also from the "under 25" crowd (just barely, but still there. I know that, being an only child, I was spoiled to an extent, but I still had certain limitations that I had to obey (like respect, manners, don't have a screaming tantrum, etc). My parents implemented some pretty simple logic: be good and get what you want, be a brat and we'll take it all away while doing fun things without you. Worked well for me. In the event I did something wrong you can bet your ***** there was a punishment involved.

In college my one roommate was a babysitter and told me how the little boy repeatedly punched and bit his 16 month old sister and the parents wouldn't do anything beyond "oh no, little angel, don't do that, it's not nice". He also threw a dollhouse at my roommate which gave her a nice bruise on her forehead, they didn't do anything. I see all these parents with little kids who are scared to reprimand them for anything and I just don't get it. Like appropriate punishment will "damage their sensitive psyches" or something.

[charolastra00]

I guess I can't say I experience the same things in my courses in any of the several schools or 4 countries that I have studied in. Sure there is furious typing- it's called taking notes. I am one of the few people in my college courses who does not take notes on the laptop but it's quite effective for most others. If people choose to flip on to facebook during a lull in the lecture, how does that negatively effect you? Chatting in class is ridiculous- but I have NEVER experienced that (mostly because almost all of my classes are under 20 people and are discussion based anyway).

Originally Posted by LostNJax

3) I spent last year teaching fourth grade students how to create power points, use exel and word. While I like the idea of students learning to type and write papers on word, I feel that for fourth graders exel and power point is a little over board. When are they ever really going to use it??

This I don't understand. What do you mean "when are they ever going to use it"? I've used powerpoint regularly since elementary school (and I was in 4th grade over 10 years ago!) and it's been especially important in college. I've used Excel less but several college science classes have expected a great deal of prerequisite knowledge in excel- and there simply isn't a place in the curriculum to get that in high school or really even in middle school unless the student chooses to take a computer literacy class- which, to be honest, was always far to basic for that age group.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Eresh

I think that is a huge part of it. Unfortunately I think it is only getting worse. Parents can barely discipline a child these days. And teachers? no way. My daughter's daycare won't even use time outs on 3 year olds because some parent complained that was too harsh. And for the older kids, parents get all bent out of shape if a teacher corrects or admonishes their precious little Johnny - and the administrators back the parent because they are scared of a lawsuit!

I really feel sorry for kids growing up today. The world is going to be a rude awakening because it will not cater to them nor will it treat them as special. They've grown up thinking they're special and everything should cater to them. What is going to happen when they are thrust out into a world with millions of other young people who think the same way?

We are doing our children no favors coddling them like this. It's our job to prepare them for the real world not protect them from every bump and bruise in life.

[LostNJax]

This I don't understand. What do you mean "when are they ever going to use it"? I've used powerpoint regularly since elementary school (and I was in 4th grade over 10 years ago!) and it's been especially important in college. I've used Excel less but several college science classes have expected a great deal of prerequisite knowledge in excel- and there simply isn't a place in the curriculum to get that in high school or really even in middle school unless the student chooses to take a computer literacy class- which, to be honest, was always far to basic for that age group.

I was just meaning that elementary aged students don't create projects using power point and excel. They use paper, glue, scissors, etc. Sure they will use it in college and maybe even in highschool (could be as low as junior high) but it doesn't seem, to me, reasonable to teach them something at such a young age they aren't going to use in the near future. They already have so much that is crammed in to the curriculum, and that's just the basic adding, subtracting, reading, and writing. I feel that if they are going to learn these programs then they should learn them in junior high.. maybe 7th or 8th grade...I think that's when I learned it.

There has been times in the past when I was teaching a child to use excel and he/she could even read a first grade level book. I feel that my time would have been more beneficial to the child had I spent it teaching him/her to read instead of excel. However, that was not the view of the administration.

Don't get me wrong I think technology is great, but I feel that it is used/pushed/enforced a little too much in the education systems.

But my whole point is that technology is IMO holding our students back in many ways. It is kind of a necessary evil, the students learn (can learn) a lot from it, however they miss out on many other learnings as well.