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Sad thing is that ignorant people don't know they are ignorant. I think the expression was stupid is as stupid does. Why would anyone without an education think they could teach? While you may have the temperament, you likely won't have the knowledge to make it fully beneficial.
I agree. If my aim is to impart an eduation to someone else, you'd think I'd get one myself first. What reason does someone without an education have to believe they should be a teacher?
Oh, it's entirely possible to have a college degree and still be as dumb as a box of rocks. "Intelligent" is not a direct correlate of "fact collector". If it were, fans of quiz shows would all be geniuses, and Alex Trebec would be Stephen Hawking.
So? Do you think this prove that the uneducated are qualified to teach?
Yes, some get through the system without actually getting an education but that doesn't excuse trying to teach without even that. At least they may have learned something along the way if they get an education.
Sadly, ignorant people are often the ones who think they have it all figured out. Problem is, all they have figured out is their little box and they have no clue how thier box fits with the big picture.
I agree. If my aim is to impart an eduation to someone else, you'd think I'd get one myself first. What reason does someone without an education have to believe they should be a teacher?
Because they have the requisite content knowledge and have a love of their child and a personal relationship with them. If you really think about your methods courses so much of the content is focused on education as a group process in a group setting. The dimensions of learning are often a result of the study of psychology which most undergraduates take anyway. Most of what is covered in education courses focuses on the institution and how to work with varying abilities etc etc etc. Last time I check Socrates was not certified nor were most university professors. The dynamics of the student/teacher relationship are also learned in parenting and most college students aren't. One of the reasons so many career changers find some education courses redundant is that they have had parenting and professional experiences that most 18-22 year olds have not. Teaching a class of 30 and teaching your own child are different beast. Many parents are tutoring their kids and providing them new academic content anyway. Some would say undoing the harm from the school day.
Yes, it happens and so does abuse in homeschol situations. I just happen to think you're more likely to find abuse in a homeschooling situation than someone thrown in a trunk. I never said no one was ever thrown in a trunk so I'm not sure what you think you've proven with your example here.
Given the number of cars on the road in a given day and the number of trunks with people in them compared to the number of homeschoolers and children abused in homsechooling situations, I'd wager abuse rates are higher than trunk rates.
And yet you and Goldie've declined to back up your assertion. Bad form, Ivory, bad form.
Because they have the requisite content knowledge and have a love of their child and a personal relationship with them. If you really think about your methods courses so much of the content is focused on education as a group process in a group setting. The dimensions of learning are often a result of the study of psychology which most undergraduates take anyway. Most of what is covered in education courses focuses on the institution and how to work with varying abilities etc etc etc. Last time I check Socrates was not certified nor were most university professors. The dynamics of the student/teacher relationship are also learned in parenting and most college students aren't. One of the reasons so many career changers find some education courses redundant is that they have had parenting and professional experiences that most 18-22 year olds have not. Teaching a class of 30 and teaching your own child are different beast. Many parents are tutoring their kids and providing them new academic content anyway. Some would say undoing the harm from the school day.
How do they know they have the requisite knowledge?
My methods classes dealt with dealing with differential learners. Just because one is a parent doesn't mean they are an expert on how their child learns. As a teacher, I know several methods to try. Does the average parent even know there are several methods? I'm a content area expert too. I can teach the subject backwards if need be. Do you think the average uneducated parent can do that?
Most likely what that parent is doing is, blindly, following someon elses homeschool curriculum and methods whether they are really best for their child or not. They also probably don't have the requisite knowledge in any let alone all subjects to even recognize if something were wrong with the curriculum.
It's not my parenting experience that made some of what was taught in my ed classes redundant. My professional experience did. Parenting your own children is unique and totally different than teaching other people's children. I'm not trying to parent the kids I teach. I'm trying to teach them chemistry and physics. My professional experience dealing with people is what made the portions of my program redundant that were redundant. I can't say parenting even affected it.
If a parent wants to home school their kids more power to them, they should be able to teach their own children. At the same time, I do think that there should be some checks and balances. Not so much a criminal background check or psyche tests, there have been some discussion of this that have been absurd. I think that the parents should have to have some type of college education, and that the family needs to submit some type of product for each grade level. There needs to be a portfolio of work from year to year, and it should have to be submitted to the state. There needs to be proof that learning has occurred. The portfolio should be evaluated and then some type of holistic score assigned to it, that way there is proof that the child has completed each grade level. I think it is fare to say that an outside source should look at the work that has been done, just so that it everything is evaluated by a third party. The portfolio would be the equivalent of a cumulative folder in public schools.
All of the people that have responded here about home school have said all of the excellent things they are doing at home, so I see no reason why the would not pass the portfolio evaluation. The portfolio evaluation would hopefully catch the bad homeschooling if it happens. I know people are not crazy about "big brother" getting involved, but I think a portfolio of work is not much to ask.
I don't have a problem with home school students that are successful and thrive, although the kid's that aren't getting what they need is what I worry about as an educator. If they are not getting what they need from public school, then try something that works, but provide documentation. Provide documentation that learning has occurred.
Then the original question that was asked, what is the importance of education? If the parent can provide that there child is learning and they have a portfolio of work, then I guess the fancy degree isn't all that important is it?
And yet you and Goldie've declined to back up your assertion. Bad form, Ivory, bad form.
I don't need to. I've already stated the logical argument.
Common knowledge WRT people in trunks. How often do you hear about one? Not often yet we have glow in the dark handles just in case. We've altered an entire system to accomondate something that happens rarely. It's also common knowledge that child abuse is common. It's logical that homeschooling would be a good way to hide abuse. I speculate (and I've made it clear it's speculation) that abuse in a homeschool sitution is probably more common than getting locked in a trunk. Yet we resist altering the system to catch those cases and offer those children a safety release handle.
I see the back and forth is still going on about homeschooling.
I have said my feelings about the fact that yes some parents should not homeschool and others are fantastic, but at the same time sometimes public school teachers are great and sometimes they are lousy. So the best thing to do is what works for your family.
We happen to do both... The both attended public school for the first time last year; half way through my younger one came back home, but older stayed. The interesting part was the discussion with the principal when we decided to pull the one out of school. I got the standard social reasons and then how I could not possibly provide an adequate education. Not once did he actually ask the reason we were bringing her home....
Now the amusing part....
I was volunteering doing some one-on-one reading when she was attending school. When we brought her home, I asked if I could continue and my daughter could read to the children as well. He said no because "all the other children would want to homeschool as well".
As the year went by, he slowly relented and let us come in to do some volunteering. After asking if we were causing any trouble and the answer being no, I really wanted to reply, "The kids may want to do the homeschooling, but the parents would not want to..." I held my tongue...
Most parents I know are counting the days until school starts, although I personally don't share that thought, I don't try to convince them it is not right. But other parents sure are quick to tell me why homeschooling isn't "good" for my children.
On the issue of out-of-school educational activities, I did just want to point out that many museums and other places do offer many, many activities during the evenings and especially weekends - the staff at these places realizes that most of their target youth audience is in school during the week, and schedules things to cover all bases. In addition to weekends there are also winter and spring breaks and summers, not to mention the plentiful unique opportunities organized inside of school hours by some teachers. I don't think that kids who attend a public school are necessarily having any less opportunities to do interesting activities in a non-formal classroom than are homeschool kids, scheduling or not. The timing may be different, but there's still plenty of time available not spent within classroom walls. It all depends on the family.
How do they know they have the requisite knowledge?
My methods classes dealt with dealing with differential learners. Just because one is a parent doesn't mean they are an expert on how their child learns.
You're suggesting that a teacher, who's read a book, is better versed in the learning styles, strengths and weaknesses of a specific child than someone who's lived with that child and was his or her first teacher?
Frankly, Ivory, if you had been teaching a child 1:1 for five years or ten or fifteen and someone claimed you didn't know that child's abilities, I would expect you to be shocked.
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