Coming Out in Middle School (elementary school, grade, teaching, girls)

[jps-teacher]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/ma...nted=4&_r=2&em

This NY Times Magazine article helps illustrate how different this world is from the one in which many of us grew up.

I think it's a good thing, though not yet done.

[Sandpointian]

Thanks for the interesting article. It is both inspiring and sad. Inspiring that a whole segment of children can feel more safe than they did in previous generations. But sad in the accelerated exposure, tolerance or even encouragement for adult-level sexuality. Why?

For a moment, put aside the homosexual dimension of this article, important that it is. Why in American is there such disdain for innocence, gay or straight? Therein lies part of our social ills.

S.

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

Thanks for the interesting article. It is both inspiring and sad. Inspiring that a whole segment of children can feel more safe than they did in previous generations. But sad in the accelerated exposure, tolerance or even encouragement for adult-level sexuality. Why?

For a moment, put aside the homosexual dimension of this article, important that it is. Why in American is there such disdain for innocence, gay or straight? Therein lies part of our social ills.

S.

The article says: "Those findings are consistent with what many adult gay men have been reporting for years: they may not have come out until adulthood, but they knew they were attracted to the same sex as early as elementary or middle school."

It seems people who are gay have ALWAYS known when they were very young but were afraid to say so. Now they feel more comfortable saying it publicly. There has not been some change in what people know, only in their comfort level in being honest with others.

I see this as a positive change. The more comfortable kids are with themselves the more likely they are to be successful.

FWIW the high school where I am teaching has a gay-straight alliance.

[Rakin]

Our son came out to us at about 16 and in HS. I believe he fully realized it in middle school but that's about the worst time for any person as far as acceptance by themselves or others.

Hopefully by high school there is more acceptance now then when we were in school.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

Thanks for the interesting article. It is both inspiring and sad. Inspiring that a whole segment of children can feel more safe than they did in previous generations. But sad in the accelerated exposure, tolerance or even encouragement for adult-level sexuality. Why?

For a moment, put aside the homosexual dimension of this article, important that it is. Why in American is there such disdain for innocence, gay or straight? Therein lies part of our social ills.

S.

I agree. Sexuality comes into the picture way too early with our kids. I'm so glad my 11 year old hasn't discovered boys beyond being friends. She's had "boyfriends" but all that means is they'll hold hands. I wish it could stay this way for a while.

My 14 yo is another story. It's scary.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Momma_bear

The article says: "Those findings are consistent with what many adult gay men have been reporting for years: they may not have come out until adulthood, but they knew they were attracted to the same sex as early as elementary or middle school."

It seems people who are gay have ALWAYS known when they were very young but were afraid to say so. Now they feel more comfortable saying it publicly. There has not been some change in what people know, only in their comfort level in being honest with others.

I see this as a positive change. The more comfortable kids are with themselves the more likely they are to be successful.

FWIW the high school where I am teaching has a gay-straight alliance.

I wonder why that is. I recall not being attracted anyone in a sexual way in elementary school. I was well into middle school before I even realize (in a sexual sense) that boys were different and then it was kind of yucky. I think I was in 8th grade by the time I could say I was attracted to anyone and my first real attraction I remember was in 9th grade. I wonder why this happens so early for homosexuals.

My 11 yo claims to not be attracted to boys. There have been boys she liked more than other boys but not in that way. They were just better friends. Yes, they called themselves boyfriend and girlfriend but they were really just friends who liked each other a lot. She's at the couldn't care less about boys stage now so I know that first real crush is coming soon. Seems they get cooties before we decide we like them after all

[Rakin]

My family raises grain fed beef with no antibiotics or harmones.

I am no scientist but we pump a lot of harmones into our food supply, chciken, beef, pork etc. It sure seems like it would have an effect on us and our kids.

[violent cello]

People seem to connect being straight with innocence and being gay with corruption and too much exposure to sex and "adult stuff". But just like little boys and girls might like to hold hands with each other, little boys like to hold hands with each other too. And little girls. Are they thinking about sex? No. They're holding hands with someone they like. I knew when I was a kid that I liked some boys in a different way than I did with my female friends, and I was in no way thinking about sex. I didn't know what sex then!

A lot of people seem to assume that homosexuality is about sex and so we should just not talk about it for now. But sexuality has NEVER just been about sex. A gay teen is trying to figure out sexuality in the same way a straight teen is: what kind of person do I like? What sort of personality am I into? What kind of dates do I enjoy? When will I feel ready for sex? How will I know it's with the right person? It is NOT about sex at this stage, except for the minority who start having sex early in their teens (I believe the average age for first sex for LGBT youth is 17).

Maybe people are afraid to accept that being gay is just as much about feelings and your own personal growth as it is about sex. Most adults spend, what, maybe 5% of the lives having sex. The rest? It's just life. And it's the same way for gay teens.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Rakin

My family raises grain fed beef with no antibiotics or harmones.

I am no scientist but we pump a lot of harmones into our food supply, chciken, beef, pork etc. It sure seems like it would have an effect on us and our kids.

They are, definitely, developing sooner than in past generations. In just the past three generations of my family, the ages girls started their periods has moved from 16 (my mother) to 14 (me) to 11 (my daughter). I think that is significant.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by violent cello

People seem to connect being straight with innocence and being gay with corruption and too much exposure to sex and "adult stuff". But just like little boys and girls might like to hold hands with each other, little boys like to hold hands with each other too. And little girls. Are they thinking about sex? No. They're holding hands with someone they like. I knew when I was a kid that I liked some boys in a different way than I did with my female friends, and I was in no way thinking about sex. I didn't know what sex then!

A lot of people seem to assume that homosexuality is about sex and so we should just not talk about it for now. But sexuality has NEVER just been about sex. A gay teen is trying to figure out sexuality in the same way a straight teen is: what kind of person do I like? What sort of personality am I into? What kind of dates do I enjoy? When will I feel ready for sex? How will I know it's with the right person? It is NOT about sex at this stage, except for the minority who start having sex early in their teens (I believe the average age for first sex for LGBT youth is 17).

Maybe people are afraid to accept that being gay is just as much about feelings and your own personal growth as it is about sex. Most adults spend, what, maybe 5% of the lives having sex. The rest? It's just life. And it's the same way for gay teens.

People don't take issue with girls holding hands with girls and boys with boys. I remember holding hands with children of either gender as a child. Up to a certain age, we were all just friends. Sometimes I liked my girl friends better than my boy friends and vice versa. It didn't mean anything because there was no sexual attraction. As a child, I definitely, preferred the company of same gender children though. Girls like to do girl things and boys like to do boy things so they, naturally, split off into groups.

What I'm asking is why is this an issue for homsexuals so early? Sexuality didn't even make my radar until well into middle school. In elementary school, I hung out with anyone and everyone. Moreso girls than boys but that's because boys don't like to play with Barbies very often. Who I hung out with and held hands with had more to do with shared likes than anything else. There weren't any sexual overtones. No preference for boys over girls WRT "feelings". We had fun together or we didn't and if we didn't, we didn't hang out together.

I went though a period time when boys were yucky. They had cooties for a couple of years before I discovered I was attracted to them. My girl friends went through this too. We all seemed to discover boys about the same time. I just never thought of them as anything but friends before that. That's what is being considered innocence here. The age before we knew we had "feelings' for anyone other than feelings of friendship.