Have I ruined my life? (colleges, graduates, history, profession)

[Ketabcha]

Check out usajobs.gov.

Your degree will pay off even if it is in another field. A BA or BS will open doors that might be closed otherwise.

Try not to be down-hearted. You have your whole life ahead of you. Things have a way of working out. The advice in this thread has been very good.

[20yrsinBranson]

Originally Posted by mcb1025

I'm only 24, and I feel that I ruined my life. But not because I killed anybody, took too many drugs, or performed any other criminal act. No, I feel I've ruined my life because I tried to better myself by going to college.

In college, I went from computer science major (dropped that because of what I heard about these jobs being offshored), to economics major (dropped that because it would have taken an extra semester at a cost of about $10,000), and finally, to political science major. Because of working a full time job, transferring schools, not having money to attend summer semesters, it took me 5 years to complete my bachelor's degree. While doing so, I amassed a debt in the $40k range.

While I was in school, I did some research as to how I could work my degree. Many legitimate job/salary websites (Payscale.com, Salary.com, CNN, MSNBC, etc.) showed the types of jobs and salaries one could expect to see after graduation with my degree and work experience. The salaries ranged from $38k/yr to $43k/yr; not bad to start out on. Well, I can say that those certainly weren't the job offers I received. The job I have now initially offered me $29k per year. I took it, because I had bills to pay.

The sentiments on Internet forums such as this one have led me to my greatest fear. I fear that I will be stuck with low paying jobs that offer no career growth or advancement opportunities for the rest of my life. In addition, I fear that I will never be able to start a family, purchase a house, or simply live a financially stable life. There seems to be a widespread belief that white collar jobs are diminishing and that my degree is nothing more than the "new high school diploma". Well, I don't recall a high school diploma ever costing an individual $60k, but I digress.

Trust me, I don't have an issue with confidence. I do a very good job at what I do. I have a lot of essential skills that I see lacking in even some of the upper level management people. Having taken business and advanced math classes in college and working with computers since I was 10, I have a strong background in all of these areas. I've been working office jobs since I was 17 years old. Yet, it seems that a lot of people now days frown upon college graduates. The mentoring I received in the past seems worthless. I used to hear that many people worked in fields other than what they studied in college and were successful. Are these happy days over? Have I dug myself into a hole that I'll never get out of? Is it worth going on?

Bottom line...I don't want to spend the rest of my life working only to pay off my student loans. That's not a life worth living.

You have to learn to "play the game" if you want to make money and break into upper level management. If you are male, (cannot tell from your username), you must learn to play golf. You must dress well and get to know the "right" people. If you are a woman, it will be harder, but the overwhelmingly singularly most important thing that you can do is GET TO KNOW THE RIGHT PEOPLE that is what being successful in ANY ENDEAVOR is about. Performance means nothing, education means nothing, work ethic, ability, intelligence, MEAN NOTHING. Being successful in today's world is all about KNOWING THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

Can I possibly make it any clearer?

20yrsinBranson
who did not take her own advice.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by mcb1025

I did a salary report on Salary.com and Payscale.com. The analysis required all of my information such as years of experience, the ranking of my university (a Top 20 school), and the area I live in (Denver). The median salaries for my job description were between $43k-$52k. As far as expecting a huge salary, I'm not expecting $60k-$70k out of college. I'd be absolutely content making in the low to mid $40k range. You aren't suggesting that that is a huge salary requirement, are you?

I wasn't your run of the mill college grad with only a couple years of retail/fast food experience under my belt. I went to vocational school as part of my high school education and since then, I've been working full-time office jobs. So, upon entering the post college job market, I already had a solid 5 years of experience under my belt in an office environment. Nonetheless, it seems like employers will ignore that FACT so that they can pay you peanuts. Needless to say, I'm actively looking for outside opportunities.

I don't mean to be rude, but you were a political science major. Did you SERIOUSLY expect 40K straight out?

I'm a political science and international relations (with development and environmental policy focuses) double major and Latin American studies and environmental studies double minor. I studied abroad in 3 countries, have worked several valuable internships on top of part time jobs, speak Spanish near fluently as well as functional French, Portuguese, and basic Icelandic, have been VERY active in local and regional politics, and am even learning computer programming and IT to better prepare myself for the job market and give myself an edge. I know logically that I'm a very competitive applicant.

When I graduate next year, I don't expect any more than $30,000 and that's been my expectation since I STARTED college when the economy was better 3 years ago. I mean, I might *only* go to a top 30 university (which I went to in order to get a near full scholarship to graduate with no loans) but my prospects due to my alma mater aren't all that different from someone a few rankings up.

I really understand how upset you feel. I'm completely panicked and I have 7 months left. Suddenly I'm reconsidering my plans to go to grad school because I'd rather graduate now with no debt than accrue more debt and stay out of the work force for 2-6 years (considered a PhD before). It really stinks and is terrifying. However, you really need to reevaluate your salary expectations. For a political science undergrad major, $40K a year is a high salary expectation straight out of college even in a good economy. People with MUCH more than 5 years in an office environment and more degrees than just a bachelors are not able to command that much right now.

[mcb1025]

Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson

You have to learn to "play the game" if you want to make money and break into upper level management. If you are male, (cannot tell from your username), you must learn to play golf. You must dress well and get to know the "right" people. If you are a woman, it will be harder, but the overwhelmingly singularly most important thing that you can do is GET TO KNOW THE RIGHT PEOPLE that is what being successful in ANY ENDEAVOR is about. Performance means nothing, education means nothing, work ethic, ability, intelligence, MEAN NOTHING. Being successful in today's world is all about KNOWING THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

Can I possibly make it any clearer?

20yrsinBranson
who did not take her own advice.

I understand the emphasis of networking, but your overall message is downright depressing. I'm a people person, meaning I can talk to people about almost any topic that I am relatively familiar with. What I am not is a kiss up. I'll shoot the breeze with my boss and talk about non-work related topics under certain circumstances, but I will NEVER kiss his/her butt. I will also continue to work hard and hope that it will eventually outshine the @ss kisser.

I think it'd be pretty stupid for a manager to promote someone less capable, but who they like better in terms of friendliness, over someone who is more capable and could further the company's interests. How are they helping the company meet their objectives by doing the former?

[ruready1st]

Originally Posted by mcb1025

I'm really glad things worked out for you, but let me ask you something to make sure I understand you correctly. It took 10 years of working your way up and a Master's Degree to finally reach the $50k/yr. mark?

Not to sound ungrateful, but that doesn't sound too promising to me. I mean, I already have more than $40k in debt from my undergrad. If I go back to school for a Master's degree, I'm looking at tagging on another $20k-$30k, give or take. All in hope of getting a $10k-$15k pay increase. I'd imagine that the money and time I put into the degree would end up cancelling out any net benefit from the pay increase. I'd hope that in 10 years of diligent work and only my bachelor's degree, that a $10k-$15k/yr pay increase would be attainable.

I think I may be better off sticking it out and trying to work my way up without acquiring much more student loan debt. I would certainly hate to think that with a bachelor's degree and 10+ years of experience that I'd still be making in the $30k range. The mid to high $40k range sounds much more reasonable.

IDK, maybe I'm completely delusional, but most of the pay scale data (on sites like Payscale.com, Salary.com, CNN Money, etc.) show that most people start out in the high $30k and low $40k range after they graduate with a bachelor's degree. I'm beginning to wonder why that stuff is published if it's just a bunch of over-inflated BS.

I got 3-5% raises each year. That doesn't add up very fast. After 3 years of experience with my Bachelors, I had a job making $32k before my Masters. I got my Masters. I then had 5 years experience and a higher degree. I got a new job after 6 months (had to stay 6 months after last course taken in order to not have to pay employer back for tuition assistance) for $45k. That is a $13k raise. I proved myself to the company and my first year received a $5k raise, that's more than 10%. Then after that I received the traditional 3-5% increase based on profits of company. I thought that is a darn good return on the investment of my degree. Tell me where else you can make over a 56% return on your money in less than 2 years!

Don't rely to heavily on the salary data you find on the internet. The data is at least 6 months to 1 year old and the economy can change a lot in that time. Also, the data doesn't distinguish between the size of the company, the different perks companies provide (they are an average) and the paid time off a company offers. Many times 3 weeks of PTO in your first year is better than money. Then there are the companies where you are lucky if you get 1 week PTO in your first year and they don't pay any better than other comparable companies.

Some companies make you pay $150 week for health insurance benefits, others charge you $50, this all effects your bottomline.

Sure you may make $50k a year, but if it cost you $10,000 a year for insurance benefits than its a wash.

At my last full-time job my insurance: medical, dental, life, AD&D, and STD/LTD insurance only cost me $195 per month! The company also did a 401(k) match (dollar for dollar) of up to 10% of your annual salary, that's free money. I had awesome benefits!

[mcb1025]

Originally Posted by charolastra00

I don't mean to be rude, but you were a political science major. Did you SERIOUSLY expect 40K straight out?

I'm a political science and international relations (with development and environmental policy focuses) double major and Latin American studies and environmental studies double minor. I studied abroad in 3 countries, have worked several valuable internships on top of part time jobs, speak Spanish near fluently as well as functional French, Portuguese, and basic Icelandic, have been VERY active in local and regional politics, and am even learning computer programming and IT to better prepare myself for the job market and give myself an edge. I know logically that I'm a very competitive applicant.

When I graduate next year, I don't expect any more than $30,000 and that's been my expectation since I STARTED college when the economy was better 3 years ago. I mean, I might *only* go to a top 30 university (which I went to in order to get a near full scholarship to graduate with no loans) but my prospects due to my alma mater aren't all that different from someone a few rankings up.

I really understand how upset you feel. I'm completely panicked and I have 7 months left. Suddenly I'm reconsidering my plans to go to grad school because I'd rather graduate now with no debt than accrue more debt and stay out of the work force for 2-6 years (considered a PhD before). It really stinks and is terrifying. However, you really need to reevaluate your salary expectations. For a political science undergrad major, $40K a year is a high salary expectation straight out of college even in a good economy. People with MUCH more than 5 years in an office environment and more degrees than just a bachelors are not able to command that much right now.

Hey, what can I say, do the research (honestly, Google "median salary for political science degree" and see what you find; go to Salary.com and get a salary report). The data supports my expectations. With my work experience and educational background, the data states the median salary is in that range. I went to a vocational business school and got certified in various computer applications and studied computer programming and web design. I worked full time as a admin. asst., purchaser, web designer, and accounting asst. I also interned for a State Representative on his campaign. I did all of this prior to graduating from college. I did not do this for laughs. I did this with the expectation that acquiring more marketable skills would beckon a higher salary. Otherwise, with higher education being extremely expensive these days, what's the point in investing in it if employers are going to pay you like a high school graduate? Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to go to a library if you simply want to feel enlightened? I'm glad I'm smarter now that I went to college, but my number one priority was to go so that I could get a higher paying job. And no, I'm not expecting a ridiculous salary like $60k+ right out of school with a political science degree (w/ an emphasis in economics). But to say $40k is extremely high, that's laughable.

Let's put this in perspective, friend. Say you want to become a doctor. Obviously your objective is to help people, but you're interested in that nice paycheck as well. So you do the research on salaries for your position. You find data that shows median starting salaries for your field at $120,000/yr. You pay over $180,000 for undergrad and med school with the expectation that the money will follow. Now you try to find a job and to your surprise, hospitals are only offering $70,000/yr starting salaries. Given what you just invested in your education, would you feel content being offered such a relatively low salary? Do you see what I'm getting at? Do you see the deception? Now do you understand the frustration I'm going through?

I did the research. You should, too, just so that you know where I got my expectations. Bottom line...I, or any other rational person, would and should not pay $60k for an education with the expectation of a salary that could be made with a high school diploma.

Anyways, I wish you the best. Given your circumstances (no debt) and perhaps even your salary history, $30k a year should offer a relatively comfortable lifestyle.

[20yrsinBranson]

Originally Posted by mcb1025

I understand the emphasis of networking, but your overall message is downright depressing. I'm a people person, meaning I can talk to people about almost any topic that I am relatively familiar with. What I am not is a kiss up. I'll shoot the breeze with my boss and talk about non-work related topics under certain circumstances, but I will NEVER kiss his/her butt. I will also continue to work hard and hope that it will eventually outshine the @ss kisser.

I think it'd be pretty stupid for a manager to promote someone less capable, but who they like better in terms of friendliness, over someone who is more capable and could further the company's interests. How are they helping the company meet their objectives by doing the former?

I am 54 years old and have been in the work force since I was 18 years of age. I have seen levels of incompetence in management that would stagger you. I have talked to managers who did not even know WHAT THE PRODUCT DID THAT THEY WERE MANUFACTURING. Competency, has nothing to do with it.

Please listen to what I am saying. If you honestly believe that performance has anything to do with success, fine - believe it as long as you want to make $29,00 a year. But remember what I am telling you now, and when you want to start making some real money then you will need to start playing the game. Just hope that it is not too late. The sooner you start the better off you are. If you wait too long to make the "right friends" then the opportunities become fewer and fewer. This is the mistake I made. I did not learn the lesson soon enough.

20yrsinBranson

[mcb1025]

Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson

I am 54 years old and have been in the work force since I was 18 years of age. I have seen levels of incompetence in management that would stagger you. I have talked to managers who did not even know WHAT THE PRODUCT DID THAT THEY WERE MANUFACTURING. Competency, has nothing to do with it.

Please listen to what I am saying. If you honestly believe that performance has anything to do with success, fine - believe it as long as you want to make $29,00 a year. But remember what I am telling you now, and when you want to start making some real money then you will need to start playing the game. Just hope that it is not too late. The sooner you start the better off you are. If you wait too long to make the "right friends" then the opportunities become fewer and fewer. This is the mistake I made. I did not learn the lesson soon enough.

20yrsinBranson

It sounds like you personally had a bad work experience that made you bitter. Trust me, I've seen incompetent people put into positions they probably didn't deserve. But if a company is losing money because of it, they won't stay there for long, because a company's objective is to make money. I truly believe that if you do a competent job and make it known to the higher powers, then you will be given an opportunity to move up. Maybe that's what you meant all along though. I just think that there's a lot more to it than simply kissing up.

[cleasach]

Originally Posted by mcb1025

Hey, what can I say, do the research (honestly, Google "median salary for political science degree" and see what you find; go to Salary.com and get a salary report). The data supports my expectations. With my work experience and educational background, the data states the median salary is in that range.

We get it. You researched and then found that the salary offerings did not match up with those you studied. Be frustrated. But get over it. Your expectations have not been met. You can dwell on it or you can make the best of it and move on.

[Alexus]

The purpose of an education is to give you a greater vantage point by which you can conduct and navigate your life. Having been exposed to higher education, stretched your mind, learned more about yourself, matured, and increased your sense of awareness, you are in a better position than you were before college to make beneficial decisions. Rather than focusing on how others define the boundaries of your interests, find your own passion and make your way. Be multi-faceted. Don't just define your income by your job, but also by your investments. This takes time so be patient, continue to learn, and keep your eyes open.

Make sure you're in the right field, one that will allow you to grow. Place yourself in a location that will offer you opportunities as you discover yourself and change. Live within your means. Strive to be one of FEW rather than one of many.