Why do people think that having a college degree makes you smart? (kindergarten, literacy)

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by flik_becky

Great for you, you should be proud of yourself. I do not want to discount your accomplishments. However, some people can and do acquire knowledge that colleges could never teach them...pointing out a discovery we helped make from half way across the world from being one of just 5 experts in the world on the subject. Colleges can NEVER teach to that individual specification, however, that information will be part of the broader subject that they teach as part of history in the future.

To start, I do not advocate that everyone should attend college. My only point is that the skills obtained by those that do not attend are likewise obtained by those that do attend. The majority of graduates only have undergrad degrees. That's just 4 years. Only 1% of our population goes for the long haul of a phd and only 2% go for professional degrees.

I do agree that I think some people are nuts with the debt they accrue for degrees that have limited financial return.

College has become over rated.

I'll agree with this, again, when it comes to some lines of study. The % of degree holders that do not involve science, engineering, and finance will have to maneuver themselves into industries that require degrees (in anything).

[hdwell]

I don't feeel a person has to have college degrees to succeed in life. Many self-employed business owners don't have degrees and are very successful. Some professions such as medicine and law obviously require college and for good reason. Would you want to be operated on by any less? Bad enough that there are incompetent Drs. and lawyers with degrees.

One thing is for sure. No degree will ever determine a persons career destiny.

[flik_becky]

Originally Posted by hdwell

I don't feeel a person has to have college degrees to succeed in life. Many self-employed business owners don't have degrees and are very successful. Some professions such as medicine and law obviously require college and for good reason. Would you want to be operated on by any less? Bad enough that there are incompetent Drs. and lawyers with degrees.

One thing is for sure. No degree will ever determine a persons career destiny.

The problem with the mindset in schools, high school and college, is that this is a risky and unnecessary risk to take, even though it has proven successful by many who have found their niche.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by flik_becky

The problem with the mindset in schools, high school and college, is that this is a risky and unnecessary risk to take, even though it has proven successful by many who have found their niche.

I've actually found it to be just the opposite. When I was in school we even had special units where we were encouraged to invent something and figure out how we could create a business to sell it. That's not to say that there aren't people out there who discourage self-employed business owners, but in general, at least in my experience in and outside of the education world, it's celebrated as the pinnacle of the American dream.

[mikejj2004]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I've actually found it to be just the opposite. When I was in school we even had special units where we were encouraged to invent something and figure out how we could create a business to sell it. That's not to say that there aren't people out there who discourage self-employed business owners, but in general, at least in my experience in and outside of the education world, it's celebrated as the pinnacle of the American dream.

You can go through years of K12 and another 4 of college and never have a single class about finance, and especially not on running a business. You know why? Anyone who knows something about business actually does it, they don't teach.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by mikejj2004

You can go through years of K12 and another 4 of college and never have a single class about finance, and especially not on running a business. You know why? Anyone who knows something about business actually does it, they don't teach.

That doesn't mean that the schools don't value small businesses, or, as flik_becky seemed to be suggesting, actively discourage entrepreneurship, though.

At the K-12 level the schools are supposed to be teaching foundation skills that can be built on (whether through higher education, SBA training, on-the-job experience, etc.); at college you get to choose your courses, so anyone who wants to take a finance class or any other coursework could do so.

[user_id]

Have not read many responses. But there has been a lot of prole drift in higher education, but preferring college degrees from the employers perspective largely makes sense. The employer can't get inside your head, they can only rely on outward information. Having a degree at least tells the employer than you had enough motivation and intelligence to finish school.

Smarter employers consider where the degree is from.

Originally Posted by mikejj2004

You can go through years of K12 and another 4 of college and never have a single class about finance, and especially not on running a business. You know why? Anyone who knows something about business actually does it, they don't teach.

Yeah, that is the sort of funny thing about some degree programs. In some subjects being a professor is one of the most desired positions, but in others its usually what you do when you can't succeed. I've always thought going to school for business was rather pointless for anybody that wanted to actually start a business rather than push papers at a boring one.

[12GO]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

That doesn't mean that the schools don't value small businesses, or, as flik_becky seemed to be suggesting, actively discourage entrepreneurship, though.

At the K-12 level the schools are supposed to be teaching foundation skills that can be built on (whether through higher education, SBA training, on-the-job experience, etc.); at college you get to choose your courses, so anyone who wants to take a finance class or any other coursework could do so.

I wish I could agree with you on the "actively discouraging entrepreneurship" thing, but experience with serveral college professors forces me to say they really don't think anyone should go into business for themselves. This is even business majors!!! When I owned my landscaping company, I did a handful of jobs for college professors, and they all thought I should work for a big company instead of my own. But they must have liked my work because I got serveral referral jobs from each of them! And this after listening to them all complain about large landscape companies they didn't like the service from.

[flik_becky]

Originally Posted by 12GO

I wish I could agree with you on the "actively discouraging entrepreneurship" thing, but experience with serveral college professors forces me to say they really don't think anyone should go into business for themselves. This is even business majors!!! When I owned my landscaping company, I did a handful of jobs for college professors, and they all thought I should work for a big company instead of my own. But they must have liked my work because I got serveral referral jobs from each of them! And this after listening to them all complain about large landscape companies they didn't like the service from.

EXACTLY! Back in high school we were given some questionaire thing that told us what we would do well with. We each in turn had to talk about what jobs it recommended and why we thought we would do well with it. We had recently been given a list of jobs that projected various market needs in five years...when we would be graduating college covering a wide range of areas from teachers to entrepenuer. I put little tally marks by each on as the students read off what the lists said for them, starting with the most likely. No joke, teaching was number one. How was it that 80% of the people in our class were fit to be teachers? Was it because it was at the top of the other list? One two of us even had entrepenuership on our lists but they were rated as the lowest option, which made me wonder if they were specifically targeting those who tested most likely to be small business owners and putting "better" options ahead of it for us to try and show the least likely successful option for us.

It also rated by bar graph the things needed to be in those positions and being business owner was the hardest. It also projected the number of jobs needed in each field in five years. How can you figure that out for small business? It also projected average pay potential with teachers at a minimum of $40,000 per year. When we spoke in class and had to pick the one that we would prefer out of all the options and say why, I chose entrepeneur and I was told how being a teacher, #1 on my list of course, would be better fit because of who I was.

My response, "How is that? Let us say for just one moment that I chose teaching. Lets say that every student in America took this test and, just like this class, 80% of all the students also were also given teacher as the number one job prospect for them. Everyone goes into it...in five years there will be no shortage and I will not have very many job opportunities. Everyone with that degree will be competing by taking lower pay options. My instinct tells me that if teaching is pushed this hard right now, I should pick another option."

Before this all began, most of the students were saying things like, "Wow! I never thought I'd be a good teacher." And were really thinking about it. After I spoke, the mock resemes of the future we were suppose to write on the one we had just chosen suddenly had only a couple of teachers. Not only that, I questioned why I had to write a reseme for my small business I had planned on starting. Wasn't more to my advantage to learn how to write a business plan?

The answer: "Everyone dreams of starting their own business. Most people don't or can't. Those who do end up with bigger and better known businesses coming in and knocking them out. Those who aren't pushed out of the market by bigger businesses have niche businesses that last an average of 5 years before they have filled the market needs in that area and have to close their business. It is also very hard for kids coming out of school to start a small business because the loans needed are hard to obtain since they do not have the credit built up. The good thing for big dreamers and thinkers like you, most of you realize this and dump that idea to get a college degree, with easier to obtain loans, and then work for the bigger businesses."

Well if I could go BACK to my high school teacher and talk to him I would tell him, "It is depends on individual skills. You can start a business these days with less than a $1000. If you are intelligent enough to know or to know how to obtain the skills needed for a small business on your own, you can largely go without college. In fact, if you are clever enough, you'll get a number of part time jobs that teach you those skills and you can obtain all you need to know in as little as a year while simutaneously building the beginnings of your small business."

I've actually found it to be just the opposite. When I was in school we even had special units where we were encouraged to invent something and figure out how we could create a business to sell it.

I remeber doing a pointless project like this. This is the EASY part of having small business. Where are the skills to teach me how to talk to clients? Where are the skills that teach me how to convince bigger companies to take on my product? Where are the skills to teach me how to overcome competition? Where are the skills that teach me how to reach out to a targeted market, especially off markets where I might not normally think of?

[uptown_urbanist]

Flik_becky, I'm assuming (but admittedly have no idea) that you're a long way out from high school. Are they still giving tests like that? They may well be doing so in some areas, but it sounds like outdated, and isn't something I've come across. That doesnt' mean it's not happening, but it's as good a reminder as any that not all schools are created equal, and that one experience (whether yours or mine) isn't indicative of every school or district. We need to be careful when making these sweeping statements. Obviously there are some issues that can be found nation-wide, but other issues are more isolated.

12GO, I guess I was thinking of my k-12 experience and not college, as it seemed that at my schools independent business was talked up as being the ideal. We did the Junior Achievement program, which although it may have changed at the time seemed to encourage considering being a business leader. Maybe teachers at the K-12 level are less cynical than those teaching business at the university level? (then again, my district's experience may not have been typical either)