With a High IQ Comes Need for Special Education (private school, district, educational)

[jps-teacher]

Originally Posted by Kele

I'm sure that this is a process which works for some children. My experience and the experience of others I know who have gone through it has been negative. When asked, my son is vehemently against moving above his peers and into the next grade--not because he is intellectually lazy, but because at his age, his education and his peer acceptance are equally important to him and to upset one or the other would not be a positive move for my child.

This would be a factor on the Iowa Acceleration Scales that would prompt a "No, this is not a good candidate for acceleration" result. That's kind of the point!

Originally Posted by Kele

Aside from this issue, for Ivorytickler, I own a home and I happen to know for a fact that a large percentage of the taxes levied against homeowners in this county do fund the district schools. So in essence, I AM paying for my son's education.

Good luck making that point.

[MegDrew]

Forgive me if my comment seems out of place; I just skimmed this entire thread and a few points jumped out at me.
I am in full support of special education for the gifted, which I gather is defined by participants in the thread as having a genius or near-genius IQ.
The fact that gifted adolescents are 400% more likely to commit suicide does not surprise me. They had a gifted program in the 80s when I was in elementary school -- a separate class in a room that seemed to have better lighting than the others (I have always been greatly affected by lighting) and the days we 'had gifted' were the only ones to which I looked forward. I was severely school-phobic until I was 9. My psychiatrist said it was likely because I was bored and my mind was 'elsewhere' as I was not challenged. Most of the other gifted children seemed to function just fine, but who knows what they were hiding? There definitely seems to be a correlation between high IQ and either mental illness and/or learning disabilities and/or a more sensitive nature in which the child is more easily hurt or, in my case, frightened. I actually did a paper on this in college and found too many examples for such a connection to be coincidence. My point is -- finally -- that gifted kids need special education not simply for the fact that it will help them to excel, but that many of them might very well be experiencing something very negative at the other end of the spectrum. Any gifted people or parents of gifted children see something like this in themselves or in their children? (By the way, I'm still completely neurotic, but I obviously got over the school-phobia; I'm a teacher ).

A related quote: "It seems that for success in science or art, a dash of autism is essential." -- Hans Asperger

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by MegDrew

Forgive me if my comment seems out of place; I just skimmed this entire thread and a few points jumped out at me.
I am in full support of special education for the gifted, which I gather is defined by participants in the thread as having a genius or near-genius IQ.
The fact that gifted adolescents are 400% more likely to commit suicide does not surprise me. They had a gifted program in the 80s when I was in elementary school -- a separate class in a room that seemed to have better lighting than the others (I have always been greatly affected by lighting) and the days we 'had gifted' were the only ones to which I looked forward. I was severely school-phobic until I was 9. My psychiatrist said it was likely because I was bored and my mind was 'elsewhere' as I was not challenged. Most of the other gifted children seemed to function just fine, but who knows what they were hiding? There definitely seems to be a correlation between high IQ and either mental illness and/or learning disabilities and/or a more sensitive nature in which the child is more easily hurt or, in my case, frightened. I actually did a paper on this in college and found too many examples for such a connection to be coincidence. My point is -- finally -- that gifted kids need special education not simply for the fact that it will help them to excel, but that many of them might very well be experiencing something very negative at the other end of the spectrum. Any gifted people or parents of gifted children see something like this in themselves or in their children? (By the way, I'm still completely neurotic, but I obviously got over the school-phobia; I'm a teacher ).

A related quote: "It seems that for success in science or art, a dash of autism is essential." -- Hans Asperger

If kids have learning disabilities, those need to be addressed to even the playing field no matter what the child's IQ and they are in IEP's. My objection is spending the kind of money we're talking about on such a small segment of the population, who if they don't have learning disabilities, are at an advantage already. Yes, learning disabilities occur at all levels which is why we have IEP's to spell out what the accomodations are.

Interesting quote there. I wonder how true it is. Seems most of the engineers I worked with had their share of quirks.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by TKramar

One thing they used to do for kids is jump them a couple of grades. But I guess someone was worried about their socialization ability with kids just a few years older instead of being closer to their age.

My daughter has been jumped 1-2 grades depending on subject. She loves it. She's always been on the emotionally mature side though but I think high school will prove to be the real challenge. Kids change a lot from 13 to 17.

[TKramar]

Having an exceptionally high IQ actually is a disability--or liability--however you'd like to see it.

People seem to be afraid of people smarter than they, so they feel the need to belittle them or to mock them--to try to bring them to their own level.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by TKramar

Having an exceptionally high IQ actually is a disability--or liability--however you'd like to see it.

People seem to be afraid of people smarter than they, so they feel the need to belittle them or to mock them--to try to bring them to their own level.

I don't see either. My daughter, certainly, is not disabled. If anything, she's super abled. She can do more with less.

I don't see people trying to bring her down to their level either. How could they?

Now, I'll admit that when she does something on the not so intelligent side (and we all do), someone is likely to say "I thought you were the smart one." but she just laughs at that. (example, she recently decided to wear flip flops to a football game on a cold rainy day . Gotta be in style ya know. She took a ribbing for that.)

I didn't see either with my best freind in high school either. She did well at what she put her mind to and everyone wanted her as their lab partner.

I find that people with genius IQ's are respected. The only ones I see getting dissed are the ones who THINK they're smart and act superior. I have one of those in one of my chemistry classes right now. I get eye rolls during lectures and questions of "Why are you teaching us THIS?" as if she's above the material. One day when she started that, I reminded her that I do teach a lower level chemistry course that this stuff isn't taught in if she'd like to transfer. She's been a little better since then.

I'm not sure my daughter qualifies as having a very high IQ. She's only in the top 1% but my best friend from high school had an official IQ of over 160. I'm sure she qualified.

[jps-teacher]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

I find that people with genius IQ's are respected. The only ones I see getting dissed are the ones who THINK they're smart and act superior.

I'm not sure my daughter qualifies as having a very high IQ. She's only in the top 1% but my best friend from high school had an official IQ of over 160. I'm sure she qualified.

4 points for Ivory to ignore:\

1) "Genius IQ" doesn't exist. No such formal terminology, and genius is a combination of aptitude and opportunity, not aptitude alone.

2) That you only see something (like "the only ones" who you see being dissed) doesn't have a thing to do with the world at large - nor even, as far as I can tell, your own classrooms.

3) Your best friend and your daughter took different tests - the one your daughter took likely did not go above 160, as that test had fallen out of favor (and current norming) when she took it. So, comparing scores and coming to conclusions from them is absurd and impossible.

4) Not to beat (yet another) dead horse, but let's see... your daughter is in the top 1% and your best friend in high school is even higher (ostensibly).

Guess who's gifted, whether she admits it or not. Like seeks like - and like births like unless one or the other has a brain injury or something like autism/downs syndrome. Baby cheetahs do not come from mama hippos. It just doesn't work like that.

[flik_becky]

I had a thought the last night....anyone here seen the Incredibles? The first half of the movie describes what being gifted is like perfectly thorugh four different persectives, regardless of the fact that I'm not particullarly fond of the movie.

[Charles Wallace]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

YOU are not paying for YOUR son's education. YOU pay the same taxes you'd pay even if you didn't have kids. YOUR taxes don't change because you use the school system. What you pay for is the school system in your city, which is what all tax payers in your city pay for whehter they have kids in the school or not. If we each paid for our own children, then only people who have children in the system would pay for the schools.

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but to the best of my knowledge, taxes levied on property support the local school in the district which surrounds it, not merely the city. Isn't this the reason why (let's say in Chicago) many people want to live -- and send their children to school -- in Highland Park (a place where property is quite expensive) rather than East Rogers Park (a place where property is cheaper)?

Moreover, whether one uses a service or not is irrelevant if you have to pay for it. I am paying for many services I do not use with my taxes. I am paying for fire department services I (thankfully) have not had to use. I am paying for hospitals I (thankfully) do not have to use. It's part of what we all have to ante up, whether we choose to play one hand or many. Therefore, though we homeschool, I am paying for my local school district -- whether my child uses it or doesn't.

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by Charles Wallace

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but to the best of my knowledge, taxes levied on property support the local school in the district which surrounds it, not merely the city. Isn't this the reason why (let's say in Chicago) many people want to live -- and send their children to school -- in Highland Park (a place where property is quite expensive) rather than East Rogers Park (a place where property is cheaper)?

This is exactly how it works in the Chicago area.... This is why some of the most educated/financially successful parents flock to a small handful of public schools in the area and pay huge property taxes for it. I did this exact thing for my family. Also, school districts here can contain multiple cities.

And there are big differences between school districts on what is considered "gifted." E.g. I know one district that enrolls the top 10% (in natl. testing) into their gifted program. My current district accepts only the top .05 - 1% after multiple IQ tests/assessments. I'd say the average curriculum in my district is 1 - 2 years ahead of nearby districts.