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Old 12-24-2009, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
22,188 posts, read 16,813,036 times
Reputation: 11649

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I did what I should have in the beginning. I went to the expert. I asked my gifted dd what she wants. Her answer:

"We do not want to be treated different. We don't want to be freaks. We want to fit in." She says she does not want a special program for her. That would just make her a freak. She says she likes being moved up to higher grade level classes because "There are normal people there, I just learn different stuff." Being with normal people seems to be important to her. (She's correcting my english as I type this, )

She also said to tell you that "Your opinion sucks".

She says that no one wants to be teased and people in your neighborhood will tease you if you're not at school because you're in a special program because you're smart. She says no one in an advanced class is going to tease you and being in a regular school allows you to interact with kids who aren't as "gifted". She says special schools for gifted kids aren't right. According to her "If everyone there is special, you're not going to know anything about the 'real world'."

Man acorns don't fall far from the tree
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:45 AM
 
784 posts, read 1,769,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I did what I should have in the beginning. I went to the expert. I asked my gifted dd what she wants. Her answer:

"We do not want to be treated different. We don't want to be freaks. We want to fit in." She says she does not want a special program for her. That would just make her a freak. She says she likes being moved up to higher grade level classes because "There are normal people there, I just learn different stuff." Being with normal people seems to be important to her. (She's correcting my english as I type this, )

She also said to tell you that "Your opinion sucks".

She says that no one wants to be teased and people in your neighborhood will tease you if you're not at school because you're in a special program because you're smart. She says no one in an advanced class is going to tease you and being in a regular school allows you to interact with kids who aren't as "gifted". She says special schools for gifted kids aren't right. According to her "If everyone there is special, you're not going to know anything about the 'real world'."

Man acorns don't fall far from the tree
  1. How do you know she is gifted?
  2. How do you know her opinion speaks for all gifted children?
  3. Then, do you listen to listen to her for all questions as to what she wants?
    1. If she doesn't think special schools for gifted students aren't right, are you going to believe her?
    2. If she thinks she doesn't have to do homework, are you going to believe her?
    3. If she thinks she doesn't have to listen to you, are you going to believe her?
    4. If she thinks that eating candy all the time is ok, are you going to listen to her?
    5. If she says she needs a brand new BMW by the time she is going to drive, are you going to listen to her?
    6. I guess you are some sort of ambition-less being that is good at taking orders from other people (your daughter) without thinking for yourself, sounds like every other public school teacher in America.
  4. Oh I didn't realize this entire 7-page thread was about your daughter and not about gifted children in general. Perhaps you should have clarified that in the first post. Thank you for pointing out the fact that what's right for your daughter is what's right for every gifted child in America.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
4,648 posts, read 8,538,590 times
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One is not a valid sample size for statistical purposes.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
22,188 posts, read 16,813,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst View Post
  1. How do you know she is gifted?
  2. How do you know her opinion speaks for all gifted children?
  3. Then, do you listen to listen to her for all questions as to what she wants?
    1. If she doesn't think special schools for gifted students aren't right, are you going to believe her?
    2. If she thinks she doesn't have to do homework, are you going to believe her?
    3. If she thinks she doesn't have to listen to you, are you going to believe her?
    4. If she thinks that eating candy all the time is ok, are you going to listen to her?
    5. If she says she needs a brand new BMW by the time she is going to drive, are you going to listen to her?
    6. I guess you are some sort of ambition-less being that is good at taking orders from other people (your daughter) without thinking for yourself, sounds like every other public school teacher in America.
  4. Oh I didn't realize this entire 7-page thread was about your daughter and not about gifted children in general. Perhaps you should have clarified that in the first post. Thank you for pointing out the fact that what's right for your daughter is what's right for every gifted child in America.
This is funny. In the other thread, parents doing what they think is best was lambasted. Here, I'm lambasted for listening to my dd. Which is it?

According to my daugheter:

"If the child is making all the decisions, it's going to turn out bad. If your parents are making all the decisions, you're going to be miserable."

As to her being gifted, she was evaluated at 4. Her academic history lives up to the claim WITHOUT special treatment. She's not the type of gifted that requires special treatment to go ahead. She does it on her own. To describe her, she learns faster, thinks deeper and comes to original conclusions on her own that are beyond her years.

She asked me to tell you that everyone she's met who is gifted (remember she was on a G&T track so she knows quite a few) does not want special treatment. She admits there is probably some kid out there who does want special treatment, for some reason, so she's not speaking for every gifted child.

As to her listening to us, and us listening to her, it goes both ways. If you recall, recently, we had the choice of sending her to the high school for math and science or honors 8th grade. She wanted to move up, which is why we made the request but she wanted to move all the way up to 9th grade. We chose to let her move up to 8th grade honors classes because we did not feel she was ready to be in the same room as 9th graders at the ripe old age of 11.

When she was young, we made all the decisions. As she gets older, she has more of a voice in what she does. If fitting in is important to her, then we'll make decisions that help her fit in. Fitting in is important to her so she's in a regular school taking some regular classes and a couple of honors classes a grade up. In the end, it's her life to live.

One of her gifts is good decision making. It was the right choice to move her up. She knew it. That's why she asked. She just prefers to jump as far as she can and Mom's a little more timid because it's much easier to supplement than to patch holes. If she needs more, we can give her that. If she misses material because she jumped too far, we might not find out until it's a problem.

As to this thread being about my daughter, she's the gifted person I'm most familiar with. Of course I'm going to talk about her.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
22,188 posts, read 16,813,036 times
Reputation: 11649
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
One is not a valid sample size for statistical purposes.
No it's not but her opinion counts. She's the one who has to live with the decisions.

And she says to tell you she "...knows tons of gifted kids". And she does. She says she can talk about them if you'd like.

I find that her gifted friends are, remarkably, like her (she's on the low end for her group. Most of these kids track faster than her.). They seem to want to be kids. They want to fit in. They want friends. They don't want more work for the sake of having more work. They do want their questions answered. It's here I find evidence of giftedness. There is a difference in the quality of questions asked by the kids who are gifted in my classroom and by my daughter and her friends.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:22 AM
 
2,175 posts, read 2,208,049 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This is funny. In the other thread, parents doing what they think is best was lambasted. Here, I'm lambasted for listening to my dd. Which is it?

According to my daugheter:

"If the child is making all the decisions, it's going to turn out bad. If your parents are making all the decisions, you're going to be miserable."

As to her being gifted, she was evaluated at 4. Her academic history lives up to the claim WITHOUT special treatment. She's not the type of gifted that requires special treatment to go ahead. She does it on her own. To describe her, she learns faster, thinks deeper and comes to original conclusions on her own that are beyond her years.

She asked me to tell you that everyone she's met who is gifted (remember she was on a G&T track so she knows quite a few) does not want special treatment. She admits there is probably some kid out there who does want special treatment, for some reason, so she's not speaking for every gifted child.

As to her listening to us, and us listening to her, it goes both ways. If you recall, recently, we had the choice of sending her to the high school for math and science or honors 8th grade. She wanted to move up, which is why we made the request but she wanted to move all the way up to 9th grade. We chose to let her move up to 8th grade honors classes because we did not feel she was ready to be in the same room as 9th graders at the ripe old age of 11.

When she was young, we made all the decisions. As she gets older, she has more of a voice in what she does. If fitting in is important to her, then we'll make decisions that help her fit in. Fitting in is important to her so she's in a regular school taking some regular classes and a couple of honors classes a grade up. In the end, it's her life to live.

One of her gifts is good decision making. It was the right choice to move her up. She knew it. That's why she asked. She just prefers to jump as far as she can and Mom's a little more timid because it's much easier to supplement than to patch holes. If she needs more, we can give her that. If she misses material because she jumped too far, we might not find out until it's a problem.

As to this thread being about my daughter, she's the gifted person I'm most familiar with. Of course I'm going to talk about her.
Very briefly:

1) It's true - they don't generally want special treatment. They want appropriate treatment, without its being special.

2) Note above - they are teased for being smart. While they are teased if they have the programs, they are also teased without the programs. What they want is to not be teased.

3) Skipping IS special treatment. Does she wish she had not skipped and were not in her advanced math classes? If so, are you going to put her back or at least take her out? OR, if she is happy with them, can she be honest and admit that she preferred that extra attention - NOT over just having her needs met (which I advocate), but over being left alone in a stultifying (for her) classroom?

4) Are you now claiming that your daughter is profoundly gifted? If not, then how is her opinion relevant to this thread?

5) Yes, I think getting her opinions about her education is a very good thing. You might do the same with your elder daughter. You should be aware that often, especially with girls, the urge to fit in overcomes the urge to grow, either intellectually or emotionally, and take into account.

(6. - While I know this is not being read by the person to whom it is directed, it is general response for other readers, as well.)
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
2,638 posts, read 6,106,262 times
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I was identified as gifted (via IQ scoring) as soon as I entered school. The ONLY good thing I can say about the gifted program was that it provided us with an opportunity to socialize with other gifted kids so that we did not feel so alone, but that was a bit of blessing in disguise. Instead of learning how to interact with normal kids, we learned to reinforce our own strangeness.

They spun it to our parents as extra challenges, but in reality it was nothing but busy work. Usually useless little logic puzzles. In retrospect I feel the program was designed to give our primary teachers a break from us as we were disruptive, correcting the teacher's errors and over-simplifications which they did not appreciate. They were warehousing us, not helping us. Certainly we never got to actually learn more advanced material, we were just killing time.

I personally feel that the gifted program did far more damage to me than good. If I could go back in time and talk my parents out of allowing them classify me as such, I would do it in a heatbeat. If I ever have a gifted child of my own, I will encourage them to attend school with their peers and I will do whatever I can to facilitate as much advanced learning on the side as they desire.

School is about more than just academics. The gifted need no help with academics, that part comes naturally, but they almost universally need help with socialization, and that is not accomplished by separating them from their peers.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,456 posts, read 4,874,901 times
Reputation: 3637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
As they say, "That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger".

Ok, color me puzzled, what kind of "protection" do gifted adults need?

You ARE an adult now. It is in YOUR hands to change things if you think you were stifled as a child. Give yourself what you need. While it might have been nice to have had everything handed to you on a silver platter as a child, reality is, it wasn't so fix it. What's stopping you from achieving all you can now? There's no rule that says if you don't achieve X by age Y you can never do it. You can never make up for the sins of the past. All you can ever do is start from today and do it right.

What happened to us as children may have shaped who we are today but the decisions we make today shape who we become tomorrow. Once we are adults, the ball is in our court. If you choose not to change your situation, you have no one to blame but yourself.

I had a 5th grade teacher who decided I must be retarded. For the next 7 years, no one had any expectations of me. I lived down to them. When I hit about 24, I decided I no longer cared to accept the life that had been dealt to me. So I changed it. I went to college and majored in engineering just to show them how wrong they were. Fortunately, innate intelligence doesn't go away just because you weren't challenged as a child. (I'm nowhere near gifted but I'm smart enough to have gotten through engineering school) Once your an adult, the ball is in your court. It's your life. Do what you want with it. There are no teachers or other kids holding you back now.
You really do not understand this situation. As others have stated, your opinions on this matter fly in the face of all of the experiences of gifted children. And again, you seem to think that what works for you should work for every gifted person in the world.

Moreover, you are making a lot of patronizing assumptions about me (which I am going to ignore).

Lastly, teachers and other kids from childhood become bosses and co-workers for many as adults. As I said, gifted individuals are minorities; discrimination doesn't just go away once one becomes an adult. I am glad that you are no longer discriminated against or have problems as a gifted adult (which makes me think that you aren't really gifted, b/c if you were, you would understand what everyone on this board is talking about) but that is not the reality for many gifted children and adults.

Your above comments wreak of insensitivity and a profound lack of comprehension of the situation (which you made clear when you commented about bullying).

Much as I applaud your proactive approach to the situation, it is very unrealistic for many and downright insensitive.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,456 posts, read 4,874,901 times
Reputation: 3637
Quote:
Originally Posted by tilli View Post
I was identified as gifted (via IQ scoring) as soon as I entered school. The ONLY good thing I can say about the gifted program was that it provided us with an opportunity to socialize with other gifted kids so that we did not feel so alone, but that was a bit of blessing in disguise. Instead of learning how to interact with normal kids, we learned to reinforce our own strangeness.

They spun it to our parents as extra challenges, but in reality it was nothing but busy work. Usually useless little logic puzzles. In retrospect I feel the program was designed to give our primary teachers a break from us as we were disruptive, correcting the teacher's errors and over-simplifications which they did not appreciate. They were warehousing us, not helping us. Certainly we never got to actually learn more advanced material, we were just killing time.

I personally feel that the gifted program did far more damage to me than good. If I could go back in time and talk my parents out of allowing them classify me as such, I would do it in a heatbeat. If I ever have a gifted child of my own, I will encourage them to attend school with their peers and I will do whatever I can to facilitate as much advanced learning on the side as they desire.

School is about more than just academics. The gifted need no help with academics, that part comes naturally, but they almost universally need help with socialization, and that is not accomplished by separating them from their peers.
Nor is it accomplished by throwing them in with peers that are going to bully them.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
2,638 posts, read 6,106,262 times
Reputation: 3343
Quote:
Nor is it accomplished by throwing them in with peers that are going to bully them.
You have to learn to deal with that sooner or later. In my opinion, sooner is better.
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