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"What if she gave it to someone who was allergic? What if she gave it to someone on another medication and there was an interaction? There is no reason to send a 10 year old child to school with peppermint oil and less reason for her to be distributing it to her friends. If I were one of the parents whose children were given the peppermint oil by this girl, I'd be thinking about suing her parents. It's not up to this girl or her mother to decide what my child can or cannot have."
"There have been issues with children's health and use of essential oils. Natural doesn't mean you can, safely, just use all you want. Arsenic is natural too."
Apparently simple common sense is not natural.
What if, what if, what if. FACT: So far not one child has had ill reactions. FACT: So far there have been no reports in this case of illness due to drug interaction. FACT: So far no one has pointed out that this child was not "DISTRIBUTING" (a term usually used to describe business, economic, mathematical or willful illegal activity) but sharing with some of her classmates as children naturally do with things. Has it occured to anyone that we live in an extremely litigious society (sue, sue, sue) making it virtually impossible to find packaging without "warnings" of some kind or other? ("Do not use this electrical product in water.") People still find the time to do the most stupid things despite volumes of posted warnings.
Children must attend school by law. That having been established, it becomes pretty easy to create rules and laws that make a simple thing like children sharing a thing, anything, seem like a nasty ill advised move just for having done it, never mind what actually took place (only some facts matter, not all of them). Especially when it might, just might, be purely innocent. Establish beyond doubt that this child knew it was wrong, and then a suspension makes sense but not otherwise. In my opinion this child has been caught in the crossfire of idiocy! A simple talk with the child and her parent is all that should have taken place.
The 'zero tolerance' mentality that allows folks to see this mother and her child as some sort of criminals absolutely needing forceful correction is reprehensible to say the least. FACT: This child's mother should have been clear about school policy so as to avoid exactly what happened, but perhaps it's more important that schools not treat every potential lack in judgment or intelligence like a willful criminal act! Actual willful harm demands swift decisive punishment. I seriously doubt this is that. Perhaps these issues wouldn't happen as frequently as they do if reasoning and common sense were a major part of America's educational curriculum which clearly they are not. They clearly aren't part of the "zero tolerence" mentality either. Zero tollerence is zero intelligence, Hand sanitizer and Kool-Aid included. (...sigh...)
Last edited by Tony Of New York; 12-25-2009 at 09:32 PM..
The school massively overreacted. She's 10 years old! What good does this punishment do? Take her aside, tell her about why that's not allowed and the reasons why, and leave it at that. The poor kid sounds like she was just trying to be nice to her friends and classmates. That's a GOOD thing, certainly not something that should be punished. If after the talk she continues to bring and share despite being warned then it's a different story, but treating kids like criminals is a great way to turn them off of school forever.
Parents can't protect their kids against anything, anyway. If you don't want your kid to ever take or ingest any substance (including peppermint oil) you need to discuss it with your kid, not expect the school to protect against every little possible danger. That's not to say that the school should continue to let her share it, but what's the point of pouncing on the kid or her mother?
Punishment should not be the answer to everything. Those of you with kids, you don't punish your kid for every mistake, do you? Kids make mistakes. Just because something is against the rules doesn't mean it needs to lead to a formal punishment. We're talking about a 10 year old here; she's a kid. I don't expect her to have read and understood every school rule. Talking to her, reminding the class as a whole about the rule and explaining the reasoning behind it, would be far more appropriate. Punishment for punishment's sake doesn't solve anything. It probably won't even work as a deterrent for other kids, since the odds are that she (and other kids) presumably didn't think that the rule applied to the oil.
As for the school saying that a kid can read the "keep out of reach of children label," well, like others have said, practically everything has that on it these days. And I would also guess that if they stopped to think about it, many 10 year olds would think that that means babies or toddlers, not kids their own age.
I think it would have been reasonable and appropriate to confiscate the peppermint oil, talk to the girl about the reasons, and put in a call the girl's parents explaining what happened and the school's concerns, but unless she's a repeat "offender" or there's something more to the story, then an in-school suspension is complete overkill and doesn't do anything to actually address the core issue.
"What if she gave it to someone who was allergic? What if she gave it to someone on another medication and there was an interaction? There is no reason to send a 10 year old child to school with peppermint oil and less reason for her to be distributing it to her friends. If I were one of the parents whose children were given the peppermint oil by this girl, I'd be thinking about suing her parents. It's not up to this girl or her mother to decide what my child can or cannot have."
"There have been issues with children's health and use of essential oils. Natural doesn't mean you can, safely, just use all you want. Arsenic is natural too."
Apparently simple common sense is not natural.
What if, what if, what if. FACT: So far not one child has had ill reactions. FACT: So far there have been no reports in this case of illness due to drug interaction. FACT: So far no one has pointed out that this child was not "DISTRIBUTING" (a term usually used to describe business, economic, mathematical or willful illegal activity) but sharing with some of her classmates as children naturally do with things. Has it occured to anyone that we live in an extremely litigious society (sue, sue, sue) making it virtually impossible to find packaging without "warnings" of some kind or other? ("Do not use this electrical product in water.") People still find the time to do the most stupid things despite volumes of posted warnings.
As to her distributing the oil, she was giving it to her friends. That is distributing. She's giving them free samples.
Children must attend school by law. That having been established, it becomes pretty easy to create rules and laws that make a simple thing like children sharing a thing, anything, seem like a nasty ill advised move just for having done it, never mind what actually took place (only some facts matter, not all of them). Especially when it might, just might, be purely innocent. Establish beyond doubt that this child knew it was wrong, and then a suspension makes sense but not otherwise. In my opinion this child has been caught in the crossfire of idiocy! A simple talk with the child and her parent is all that should have taken place.
The 'zero tolerance' mentality that allows folks to see this mother and her child as some sort of criminals absolutely needing forceful correction is reprehensible to say the least. FACT: This child's mother should have been clear about school policy so as to avoid exactly what happened, but perhaps it's more important that schools not treat every potential lack in judgment or intelligence like a willful criminal act! Actual willful harm demands swift decisive punishment. I seriously doubt this is that. Perhaps these issues wouldn't happen as frequently as they do if reasoning and common sense were a major part of America's educational curriculum which clearly they are not. They clearly aren't part of the "zero tolerence" mentality either. Zero tollerence is zero intelligence, Hand sanitizer and Kool-Aid included. (...sigh...)
According to your logic, why bother wearing your safety belt. You probably won't get hurt if yout don't. Yes, ZERO tolerance is the rule of the day when it comes to people's health. You don't send your child to school with your chosen homeopathic medication and have her pass it out to her friends. PERIOD. If my child had been given the peppermint oil (remember we're talking about the essential oil here NOT a flavoring. Essential oils are used for, among other things, medicinal purposes and should be considered medicines.), I'd be thinking about suing the girl's parents. In the use link posted above, it comes right out and says "DO NOT USE ON CHILDREN".
We have zero tolerance for things like passing drugs to others for a reason. We have zero tolerance for things like wearing safety belts for a reason. Sadly, I had a parent try and use your same logic on me when I gave her daughter detention for not wearing safety glasses in the lab. When I said "What if.." she said "But it didn't happen, did it?". As if getting away with not following safety protocol is some kind of proof we don't need it.
Kids should not be taking medicinal supplies to school or passing them out to others. Period. Yes, I agree with zero tolerance. What I don't agree with is suspension. It should have been expulsion and her parents should have been required to sign a serious behavior contract before she was let back in or the parents simply taken to court and sued for allowing their daughter to give a homeopathic medication that says on the label not to give it to children to school and to her friends. I repeat, NATURAL DOES NOT MEAN SAFE. You can have adverse reactions to the essential oils. Many things are natural I'd never put in my kids water, like lead, or arsenic. Perfectly natural but I want my kids nowhere near them. Ditto for the essential oils. I'll use them when the doctor says to. They are, basically, OTC medications that have bypassed the medication safety protocols we've set up. There are no drug trials done on them. Adverse effects are found out about by trial and error.
If the girl wants to flavor her water, she should be doing it with peppermint flavoring not the essential oil. Essential oils are highly concentrated and many should not come in contact with skin. They contain compounds that are drugs just naturally occuring ones (hence their popularitity as homeopathic medications). There are lots of naturally occuring drugs I'm not giving my kids and I would be majorly PO'd if someone elses child were giving them to my child. These parents need a huge does of common sense. Either expel the girl until her parents sign a contract spelling out what they can and cannot send her to school with to pass out to her friends or sue them for being idiots and placing other children in harms way by encouraging their daughter.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-26-2009 at 06:43 AM..
The school massively overreacted. She's 10 years old! What good does this punishment do? Take her aside, tell her about why that's not allowed and the reasons why, and leave it at that. The poor kid sounds like she was just trying to be nice to her friends and classmates. That's a GOOD thing, certainly not something that should be punished. If after the talk she continues to bring and share despite being warned then it's a different story, but treating kids like criminals is a great way to turn them off of school forever.
Parents can't protect their kids against anything, anyway. If you don't want your kid to ever take or ingest any substance (including peppermint oil) you need to discuss it with your kid, not expect the school to protect against every little possible danger. That's not to say that the school should continue to let her share it, but what's the point of pouncing on the kid or her mother?
Punishment should not be the answer to everything. Those of you with kids, you don't punish your kid for every mistake, do you? Kids make mistakes. Just because something is against the rules doesn't mean it needs to lead to a formal punishment. We're talking about a 10 year old here; she's a kid. I don't expect her to have read and understood every school rule. Talking to her, reminding the class as a whole about the rule and explaining the reasoning behind it, would be far more appropriate. Punishment for punishment's sake doesn't solve anything. It probably won't even work as a deterrent for other kids, since the odds are that she (and other kids) presumably didn't think that the rule applied to the oil.
As for the school saying that a kid can read the "keep out of reach of children label," well, like others have said, practically everything has that on it these days. And I would also guess that if they stopped to think about it, many 10 year olds would think that that means babies or toddlers, not kids their own age.
I think it would have been reasonable and appropriate to confiscate the peppermint oil, talk to the girl about the reasons, and put in a call the girl's parents explaining what happened and the school's concerns, but unless she's a repeat "offender" or there's something more to the story, then an in-school suspension is complete overkill and doesn't do anything to actually address the core issue.
The problem is you're talking about an essential oil that is used for medicinal purposes. People are talking about peppermint oil as if it's just peppermint flavoring. It's not. This is not the stuff you buy in your grocers aisle.
It's the difference between lavender oil and lavender air freshener. Lavender oil will mimic estrogen in the body but there isn't enough of it in air freshener to harm anyone. There are several medicinal uses for peppermint oil one of which is opening blood vessels. If this were peppermint flavoring, I'd agree it's over reaction but it's peppermint oil. That is a medicine and should never have been taken to school by a 10 year old girl and her mother should not be defending her giving it to her friends. I do agree the punishment is in the wrong place. It's the parents they should be going after. This girl should have been expelled pending a hearing her parents had to attend where a behavioral contract needed to be signed. Obviously, mom lacks the sense to know that you don't send your child to school with medicines to share with her friends. She's also using an essential oil on her child that is not supposed to be used on children. Perhaps social services needs to be called in too.
People need to remember that essential oils are and should be treated as medicines. They should only be used for approved issues and in the manner prescribed. Last year one of my students had lice. Her mom didn't want to use "poison" on her so she used straight tea tree oil, which KILLS lice...hmmmm...I guess that makes it a POISON (if memory serves me correctly, it contains turpine which is a poison but they've given it it's own CAS number so I can't verify that anymore). The MSDS on tea tree oil says to never put it directly on the skin yet that's exactly what this mother did. The illogic would be funny if it weren't children being experimented with here. If it KILLS LICE, doncha think it might harm things like your child's skin cells or get into her blood transdermally? You might want to know what you're putting on/in your kids. People are under the misconception that because these are plant extracts they are perfectly safe. Many medicines sold in the pharmacy come from plant extracts too. Many things can be used, safely, in dilute enough quantities.
Please, please, please, remember these are medicines and they're not FDA approved. As to over reaction, would any of us here use the excuse "But nothing happened" if we were pulled over and ticketed for not wearing our seat belt? Would that one hold up in court? We have safety rules BECAUSE OF the WHAT IF's.
In this case the school should have taken stronger action because, obviously, someone here doesn't know that you don't bring essential oils to school and you don't distribute them to your friends and she's learned that from mom who needs to be taught some common sense.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-26-2009 at 07:21 AM..
Punishment should not be the answer to everything. Those of you with kids, you don't punish your kid for every mistake, do you? Kids make mistakes. Just because something is against the rules doesn't mean it needs to lead to a formal punishment. We're talking about a 10 year old here; she's a kid. I don't expect her to have read and understood every school rule. Talking to her, reminding the class as a whole about the rule and explaining the reasoning behind it, would be far more appropriate.Punishment for punishment's sake doesn't solve anything. It probably won't even work as a deterrent for other kids, since the odds are that she (and other kids) presumably didn't think that the rule applied to the oil.
I totally agree with this.
No one is saying that the girl should be allowed to bring her peppermint oil to school. The problem is that the school overreacted and treated her as if she'd brought an illegal substance to school and distributed it. She's TEN. She did not know that the peppermint oil counted as a "drug." It would have been just as effective if the school personnell took away the oil, told her that the oil was not allowed, and called her mother to let her know about the situation.
I understand punishing for willful defiance, but not for not knowing the rules in the first place. If my kids don't know that something is against the rules, why would I punish them for breaking the rules? If someone unknowingly breaks an ambiguous rule at work, they typically get a verbal (or a written) warning, so that they know for next time. Even if you get pulled over for going a few miles over the speed limit or for having a broken tail light, many times, you just get a warning. Real Life is not as draconian as kids are being made to believe!
No one is saying that the girl should be allowed to bring her peppermint oil to school. The problem is that the school overreacted and treated her as if she'd brought an illegal substance to school and distributed it. She's TEN. She did not know that the peppermint oil counted as a "drug." It would have been just as effective if the school personnell took away the oil, told her that the oil was not allowed, and called her mother to let her know about the situation.
I understand punishing for willful defiance, but not for not knowing the rules in the first place. If my kids don't know that something is against the rules, why would I punish them for breaking the rules? If someone unknowingly breaks an ambiguous rule at work, they typically get a verbal (or a written) warning, so that they know for next time. Even if you get pulled over for going a few miles over the speed limit or for having a broken tail light, many times, you just get a warning. Real Life is not as draconian as kids are being made to believe!
Actually, there is good reason to make an example of this. So that others know and the person who needs that lesson most is this girl's mother.
Given our medical history, I'd be FURIOUS if some other child gave my child peppermint oil. I'd probably get lawyer and sue the girl's parents. A condition that precludes using anything to dialate blood vessels runs in my family and it can kill. I'd make damned sure this never happened again. This mother is an idiot. IMO, the school should have done more. Someone needs to teach this mother that you don't send your child to school with homeopathic medicines and have her distribute them to her friends. No one has the right to take my children's lives into their hands. I would NEVER use peppermint oil for medicinal purposes myself or on my children. That should be my choice not the choice of some other kid's mother who doesn't have the sense she was born with.
The problem is you're talking about an essential oil that is used for medicinal purposes. People are talking about peppermint oil as if it's just peppermint flavoring. It's not. This is not the stuff you buy in your grocers aisle.
It's the difference between lavender oil and lavender air freshener. Lavender oil will mimic estrogen in the body but there isn't enough of it in air freshener to harm anyone. There are several medicinal uses for peppermint oil one of which is opening blood vessels. If this were peppermint flavoring, I'd agree it's over reaction but it's peppermint oil. That is a medicine and should never have been taken to school by a 10 year old girl and her mother should not be defending her giving it to her friends. I do agree the punishment is in the wrong place. It's the parents they should be going after. This girl should have been expelled pending a hearing her parents had to attend where a behavioral contract needed to be signed. Obviously, mom lacks the sense to know that you don't send your child to school with medicines to share with her friends. She's also using an essential oil on her child that is not supposed to be used on children. Perhaps social services needs to be called in too.
People need to remember that essential oils are and should be treated as medicines. They should only be used for approved issues and in the manner prescribed. Last year one of my students had lice. Her mom didn't want to use "poison" on her so she used straight tea tree oil, which KILLS lice...hmmmm...I guess that makes it a POISON (if memory serves me correctly, it contains turpine which is a poison but they've given it it's own CAS number so I can't verify that anymore). The MSDS on tea tree oil says to never put it directly on the skin yet that's exactly what this mother did. The illogic would be funny if it weren't children being experimented with here. If it KILLS LICE, doncha think it might harm things like your child's skin cells or get into her blood transdermally? You might want to know what you're putting on/in your kids. People are under the misconception that because these are plant extracts they are perfectly safe. Many medicines sold in the pharmacy come from plant extracts too. Many things can be used, safely, in dilute enough quantities.
Please, please, please, remember these are medicines and they're not FDA approved. As to over reaction, would any of us here use the excuse "But nothing happened" if we were pulled over and ticketed for not wearing our seat belt? Would that one hold up in court? We have safety rules BECAUSE OF the WHAT IF's.
In this case the school should have taken stronger action because, obviously, someone here doesn't know that you don't bring essential oils to school and you don't distribute them to your friends and she's learned that from mom who needs to be taught some common sense.
Which is precisely why the child simply needed to be told the rule. If you did not know that you were not allowed to (fill in the blank), would you not understand if someone simply explained the rule for you? Would you really need a suspension from your job or whatever in order for you to learn the rule?
And really... read the back of the hand sanitizer bottle. Mine says "keep out of the reach of children." Some people get a rash from it. Some people get rashes from bandaids, and oral thrush can be transmitted from kids chewing on their pencils and lending them out. If a child gave someone a bandaid, lent them their hand sanitizer, or gave them a half-chewed pencil, the other child could potentially suffer some sort of harm... but the child who shared would not be suspended over it.
While the child's mother may lack common sense if she sent the kid to school with the oil, the child is a CHILD. Kids don't have common sense... they need to be taught. In my book, teaching does not have to happen with punishments... in most cases, it can be accomplished with just explanation, especially with a ten year old.
Actually, there is good reason to make an example of this. So that others know and the person who needs that lesson most is this girl's mother.
Or they could just TELL the other kids and the mother. Not as drama-worthy as asserting their Authority, of course, but that would be common sense on the part of the school... which is sadly lacking!
Or they could just TELL the other kids and the mother. Not as drama-worthy as asserting their Authority, of course, but that would be common sense on the part of the school... which is sadly lacking!
Yes it is. She's not the only idiot out there who thinks homeopathic means harmless. As a mother whose children would have been at risk in this case, I'd sue her mother and the school for allowing it to happen. It would not happen again. Sometimes you have to make examples of idiots so other idiots don't follow in their footsteps.
The girl brought a homeopathic medicine to school that is not even supposed to be used on children and distributed it. It should be treated the same as any medication brought to school and distributed. Treating it differently because it's homeopathic would send the message that homeopathic medicines are ok. Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not and there are families like mine who need to avoid some of them, like peppermint oil in theraputic doses (flavoring is not an issue, concentrations are too low to have any effect on the body other than those arising from the aroma.).
Regardless, it should be the parents of each child who decide what medications they can take for what ailments not some other child's mother who doesn't even have the sense to read the label which warns not to even use the product on her own child. To treat this lightly is to send the message that the risks she took were ok. They are not ok. If one of my children carries the problem that killed my mother, anything that dialates the blood vessels is a risk. NO ONE has the right to take that risk with my child and I'd make an example of anyone stupid enough to cross my path on this one. This mother did not use the organ between her ears. What kind of idiot uses homeopathic medications on their own kids and sends them to school with them? Who doesn't teach their children not to pass out medicines they use to others? My kids know that any medication they use is not to be shared. Obviously, someone forgot to teach that to this girl. That her mother is thinking of filing a lawsuit just shows her stupidity. She's the one in the wrong and she's going to sue? If this happened in my state, I'd show up in court with my family's medical history as an example of how this could have gone very wrong to make sure she didn't win anything.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-26-2009 at 09:02 AM..
The problem is you're talking about an essential oil that is used for medicinal purposes. People are talking about peppermint oil as if it's just peppermint flavoring. It's not. This is not the stuff you buy in your grocers aisle.
It's the difference between lavender oil and lavender air freshener. Lavender oil will mimic estrogen in the body but there isn't enough of it in air freshener to harm anyone. There are several medicinal uses for peppermint oil one of which is opening blood vessels. If this were peppermint flavoring, I'd agree it's over reaction but it's peppermint oil. That is a medicine and should never have been taken to school by a 10 year old girl and her mother should not be defending her giving it to her friends. I do agree the punishment is in the wrong place. It's the parents they should be going after. This girl should have been expelled pending a hearing her parents had to attend where a behavioral contract needed to be signed. Obviously, mom lacks the sense to know that you don't send your child to school with medicines to share with her friends. She's also using an essential oil on her child that is not supposed to be used on children. Perhaps social services needs to be called in too.
People need to remember that essential oils are and should be treated as medicines. They should only be used for approved issues and in the manner prescribed. Last year one of my students had lice. Her mom didn't want to use "poison" on her so she used straight tea tree oil, which KILLS lice...hmmmm...I guess that makes it a POISON (if memory serves me correctly, it contains turpine which is a poison but they've given it it's own CAS number so I can't verify that anymore). The MSDS on tea tree oil says to never put it directly on the skin yet that's exactly what this mother did. The illogic would be funny if it weren't children being experimented with here. If it KILLS LICE, doncha think it might harm things like your child's skin cells or get into her blood transdermally? You might want to know what you're putting on/in your kids. People are under the misconception that because these are plant extracts they are perfectly safe. Many medicines sold in the pharmacy come from plant extracts too. Many things can be used, safely, in dilute enough quantities.
Please, please, please, remember these are medicines and they're not FDA approved. As to over reaction, would any of us here use the excuse "But nothing happened" if we were pulled over and ticketed for not wearing our seat belt? Would that one hold up in court? We have safety rules BECAUSE OF the WHAT IF's.
In this case the school should have taken stronger action because, obviously, someone here doesn't know that you don't bring essential oils to school and you don't distribute them to your friends and she's learned that from mom who needs to be taught some common sense.
You totally missed the point.
It's not "nothing happened, so what's the problem?"
It's "nobody has ever been hurt by this product!"
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