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Here, team teaching means you have enough special ed students in the class to warrant a second, special ed, teacher. You might want to check to see if that's what they are doing at your granddaughter's school. I had to have dd#2 moved to another class because they put her in a team taught class. When done for the reason of mainstreaming special ed students, the class will track slower. Even with two teachers, they can't keep pace with so many special ed kids.
Last year I had two lower level chemistry classes. One was team taught with about a dozen special ed kids. The other was not. There were less than half a dozen special ed kids in that class. I'm not sure what the magic number is but both times I've team taught, half the class was special ed students. In the class I had dd moved from about 1/3 were special ed students.
You'll have to ask as they won't tell you this is what they are doing. When I found out dd was in a team taught class, they presented it as some wonderful thing they are doing to benefit all their students. I had to come right out and say "You are a special ed teacher, aren't you?" and then she, quitely asked me to see her after all the other parents had left and confirmed that she was, indeed, a special ed teacher and was in that class because it had been deemed to have enough special ed kids to warrant her being there.
Don't get me wrong. This model is good for kids who could benefit from special services they don't qualify for but one of the top two students in her grade should not have been in that class. It took some juggling but we got her moved. Now my older daughter gains from being in team taught classes. She tends to not try things until she's CERTAIN she can do them and the extra practice they tend to give helps her.
With all due respect, your posts seem to equate special ed students with the "problem" students in your classes. May I ask how many of their IEP's you read before the first day of school?
With all due respect, your posts seem to equate special ed students with the "problem" students in your classes. May I ask how many of their IEP's you read before the first day of school?
I read them as soon as they're given to me. What makes you think I don't read them?
You'll have to point out where I equated special ed kids with the problems in my class. I don't believe I did so. What I said is the classes pace slower and my experience is that they do pace slower.
This class set up is a problem for some students. Here, team taught classes tend to pace slower due to those veri IEP's. Some students don't benefit from pacing slower. My dd is one of them. She does not belong in a team taught class.
The school tries to play this as something they do to benefit all students when it's about mainstreaming special ed kids and has nothing to do with what's good for the non special ed kids in the class. If you read my post, you'd note that I said that this is a good arrangement for some kids who could use extra help who don't have IEP's. I don't, however, recommend it for the college bound set.
I read them as soon as they're given to me. What makes you think I don't read them?
You'll have to point out where I equated special ed kids with the problems in my class. I don't believe I did so. What I said is the classes pace slower and my experience is that they do pace slower.
This class set up is a problem for some students. Here, team taught classes tend to pace slower due to those veri IEP's. Some students don't benefit from pacing slower. My dd is one of them. She does not belong in a team taught class.
The school tries to play this as something they do to benefit all students when it's about mainstreaming special ed kids and has nothing to do with what's good for the non special ed kids in the class. If you read my post, you'd note that I said that this is a good arrangement for some kids who could use extra help who don't have IEP's. I don't, however, recommend it for the college bound set.
You do understand that IEPs with learning disabilities does not necessarily mean that the child needs a slower pace. Some children with asperger's or adhd are also gifted. So are some children with dyslexia. And then there are the students with physical problems, but no mental disability at all. These things are going to depend upon what the disability is *and* what the ability level of the students are as well.
As a teacher who has stood in front of that class before, I can tell you that once you get enough problem students in one class, nothing you do will work. Once you reach critical mass, they start to feed off of each other and suck in kids who wouldn't have normally been a problem.
I've taught lower level chemistry classes twice and both years I had one class I could not reign in because I was past that critical point. Both times, I found the only thing I could do was kick about three of them out of the class and teach the others BUT use of in house detention or the office for classrooom discipline is frowned upon and the kids know it. They know if they get sent to the office often enough it starts to look like the teacher is the problem and the teacher gets their hand slapped. It's a big joke to them.
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Last year I had two lower level chemistry classes. One was team taught with about a dozen special ed kids. The other was not. There were less than half a dozen special ed kids in that class. I'm not sure what the magic number is but both times I've team taught, half the class was special ed students. In the class I had dd moved from about 1/3 were special ed students.
Based on these two comments regarding your lower level chemistry classes last year and number of special ed students, it is pretty hard to separate your comment about "problem students" and "critical mass" as reflecting on children with special needs, especially when you had a push-in Special Ed teacher in one of those classes.
Based on these two comments regarding your lower level chemistry classes last year and number of special ed students, it is pretty hard to separate your comment about "problem students" and "critical mass" as reflecting on children with special needs, especially when you had a push-in Special Ed teacher in one of those classes.
Um, I didn't say the problem students were the special ed students, did I? (And that second comment had NOTHING to do with problem students. It's about when they decide to put a second teacher in the room so I'm not sure what you're getting at calling that statement out.)
Yes, when you get a critical mass of problem students, who tend to be concentrated in lower level classes because they aren't great students to begin with, quite likely due to the fact they are problem students, the class becomes impossible to control. Nowhere did I say I was talking about special ed students. Some of my problem students have been and some have not been. In a class that's team taught with 50% special ed kids, I'd expect 50% of my problem kids to be special ed kids. Statistically speaking.
And yes, my experience is that with 50% special ed kids in the room the school will assign a co teacher to the room. What does that have to do with problem students? The assignment of the special ed teacher is to help insure IEP's are met and help the class pace faster (my experience is that this class will still pace slower than a class that doesn't have half special ed students. Meeting so many different needs takes a lot of time.)
You are reading what you want to read into my posts. I'm not sure what your problem is but I never said that special ed kids were my problem students. Some are, some aren't. Depends on the kid.
ObserverNY,
I think you are reading far more into her response than she intended. I understood what she meant when she stated, "Once you reach critical mass, they start to feed off of each other and suck in kids who wouldn't have normally been a problem." I completely agree with this statement. You then took her post about her experience team teaching in a lower level chemistry class and you attempted to tie these two separate posts together to suit your agenda. The team teaching post simply described her experience of when they assigned a special ed. teacher to her classroom.
I'm betting you're not a teacher, but are a parent of a special needs student, and you have had some bad experiences with teachers.
I'll pay you half on the bet
I am not a teacher, but I was the VP of our district's SEPTA and advocated for the needs of the G & T students. Ivorytickler was describing students in the same two lower-level Chem classes. One was team taught, one was not. It was not clear from her posts which of the two classes reached "critical mass". Instead of the snarky, uber-defensive reply I received, she could have clarified. What she ended up saying was some of the "problem" students were SE.
There are very specific laws dealing with disciplining of SE students if the behavior is a result of their disability. There are also a number of well documented teaching techniques to deal with various learning disabilities.
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